Crusader Kings 3 Dev Diary #51 - It’s Time to Duel

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I said that mainly because, as I understand it, the devs want to use it as a bit of authentic medieval flavour.

If we want flavor, let's get the Silk Road back in the game so we can start trading those Far Eastern spices!
 
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Karlington

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According to the dictionary you deem sacred, comprehension literally means understanding. You have written "understanding is not the sole criteria for whether people understand".

If you understand what someone means, they've done their job. This sentence makes less sense than wroth used as a noun does.
I don't hold it sacred at all. :)

You're right about the rest, though; what I wrote was a total clustermug. I meant that being understood is not the sole criteria of whether you used the words properly - such as my example stating that that's "nut the whey eat works" - easily understood, but definitely not correct. :)

I don't know what wires crossed in my brain while I was writing that post, but man, was it a mess! :D
 
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Test your might.
 
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OK, this discussion requires a linguist.
No, we are speaking the same language. :)
Erm... You really don't. No two people speak the same language (for a number of reasons laying in acquisition, in particular, active and passive lexicon/grammar differing), all things like "we both speak English" are misnomers not unlike biological species (it does not, strictly speaking, make sense to debate whether a particular being is, say, Canis lupus). Read Chomsky on I-language vs. E-language, for instance.
I'm with you what defines the meaning of a word: if the people you're communicating with understand what you mean, you're using the word correctly
That's decidedly not true. You will understand me if I suggest someone to "go X themselves" for virtually any X because only one meaning is generally used in that context. Doesn't mean any word correctly has the meaning of the original word behind the X.

Regarding "wroth/wrath" - yeah, it seems like the proper usage is for wroth to only be an adjective, but of course languages change over time, and it seems GRRM (though probably not solely GRRM) is influential enough for the word to get second meaning. And dictionaries are always behind the change - which is actually good because it slows the change down for languages with a standard variety (like Swedish, French, or Russian; whether English has one is debatable), thus enhancing intelligibility between varieties which are in diglossia under the standard variety.
 
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Does dueling have to be done with weapons? What if I want to challenge my enemies to a children's card game?
 

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Does dueling have to be done with weapons? What if I want to challenge my enemies to a children's card game?
Do you have any ebony maces? Go duel. (A Go Fish joke of course.)
 

Karlington

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OK, this discussion requires a linguist.

Erm... You really don't. No two people speak the same language (for a number of reasons laying in acquisition, in particular, active and passive lexicon/grammar differing), all things like "we both speak English" are misnomers not unlike biological species (it does not, strictly speaking, make sense to debate whether a particular being is, say, Canis lupus). Read Chomsky on I-language vs. E-language, for instance.
I'm using English here. Which different language are you using then? ;)
 

Tuo

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I'm using English here. Which different language are you using then? ;)
Are you using American English, Commonwealth English, vernacular English, simple English...?

Think of "English" as a convenient shorthand for a group of mutually intelligible languages, each more or less subtly different - it makes a lot more sense that way.

As for me, though it wasn't me you were quoting, I'm using my English, which is ever so slightly different from your English.

And don't have a giraffe about it, now!
 
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For modding, can the initial circumstance of the duel support arbitrary flags? Specifically, I want to be able to say that a duel is wrestling and disallow moves with weapons (and add some fun extras).
 

Karlington

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Are you using American English, Commonwealth English, vernacular English, simple English...?

Think of "English" as a convenient shorthand for a group of mutually intelligible languages, each more or less subtly different - it makes a lot more sense that way.
I don't think of it that way because that's not what it is. :) They're different dialects of the same language, and most linguists would agree.




As for me, though it wasn't me you were quoting, I'm using my English, which is ever so slightly different from your English.
Sure, "ever so slightly different" uses of the same language. Ever so slight differences don't make a whole new language. ;)




And don't have a giraffe about it, now!
Look, man, I don't mind disagreement but I don't like being bossed around. I'll have as many giraffes as I want!

;)
 
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Sure, "ever so slightly different" uses of the same language. Ever so slight differences don't make a whole new language. ;)
Then, pray tell me, what does? A line that cannot be defined is not terribly useful for defining things.
 
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Over time, we hope to improve the combat system with general QoL tweaks, dedicated UI, and, last but not least, more combat moves. We also intend to pepper it throughout future content, as well as rework certain elements of old content on an on-going basis to use these more elaborate duels as appropriate.

Thank you for this. This should be done with all features - don't just create and forget; but keep iterating and adding new events - especially for generic people/countries.
 
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pengoyo

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Erm... You really don't. No two people speak the same language (for a number of reasons laying in acquisition, in particular, active and passive lexicon/grammar differing), all things like "we both speak English" are misnomers not unlike biological species (it does not, strictly speaking, make sense to debate whether a particular being is, say, Canis lupus). Read Chomsky on I-language vs. E-language, for instance.
No two people speak the same version of a language (i.e. their grammatical rules might differ slightly from person to person). But the word 'language' is still used by most linguists to refer to a group of mutually intelligible dialects or idiolects. And while there is a usage of 'language' referring to one's 'internal language' (also called an idiolect), this is importantly with that 'internal' modifier there or in a context where that meaning is made clear.

As for biology, it has the species concept, and while not perfect, it is still has value in using it. I don't know of any biologist who would refer to all individuals as each being their own species.

While Noam Chomsky did a lot for linguistics, take what he says with a grain of salt.

Think of "English" as a convenient shorthand for a group of mutually intelligible languages, each more or less subtly different - it makes a lot more sense that way.
This is what the word 'language' is for, a convenient short had to refer to a group of mutually intelligible idiolects or dialects.

Then, pray tell me, what does? A line that cannot be defined is not terribly useful for defining things.
Mutual intelligibility, you recognized English as valid grouping based on this principle. So why can't that grouping go by the word 'language'? Which most linguist use it for that anyways. Note, putting everything in individual boxes with no mechanism for grouping them is not useful either.



But ultimately none of this matters, as this has really just become a giant semantic argument over terminology. Both sides are using the word 'language', just referring to two different linguistic concepts. I point this out, as your terminology seems to be the stumbling block preventing you from having a fruitful discussions.
 
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Mutual intelligibility, you recognized English as valid grouping based on this principle. So why can't that grouping go by the word 'language'? Which most linguist use it for that anyways. Note, putting everything in individual boxes with no mechanism for grouping them is not useful either.
Norwegian, Swedish and Danish languages are largely mutually intelligible, yet are not grouped together as one language. Often, the difference between language and dialect is what is elevated as a language by nationalistic ideals, and the point of this line of argument is that there is no inherent, absolute standard to what is "correct language".
 
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Have you noticed that everyone on this forum suddenly becomes an expert on whatever topic they're discussing without reservation for mistake or non absolutes?
 
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Karlington

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Norwegian, Swedish and Danish languages are largely mutually intelligible, yet are not grouped together as one language. Often, the difference between language and dialect is what is elevated as a language by nationalistic ideals, and the point of this line of argument is that there is no inherent, absolute standard to what is "correct language".
The mutual intelligibility of the Scandinavian languages, while greater than that of most languages, is not as great as some people think. Unless a person has a lot of experience with a Scandinavian language other than their own, or has lived in an area where it is spoken for a while, it's very difficult to have a conversation about anything other than superficial things, and it requires a lot of repetition and explaining what you mean.

For example, I'm Swedish, yet when I speak to Norwegian friends we use English. Why? So we can understand each other better. :) And Danish, forget it, the Danes can't even understand each other! :D

On the other hand, when I speak to friends who speak different Swedish dialects we never resort to English. That'd be weird.

-----

You are right that there is no Platonic ideal of the definition of language, but that doesn't really matter. Languages are forms of communication that have evolved over time through social conventions etc, so it makes sense that the definition of what a language is has evolved over time through social conventions etc. ;) It's not as if a definition has to be 100% perfect to be useful, and becomes worthless otherwise.

The linguists use the term "language" for a reason. It's definitely more useful than saying that every person speaks their own language (and if such a minor variation in use created a new language, does that mean that I speak a different language each year, or month, or day as my style changes? :) ).
 
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Karlington

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Have you noticed that everyone on this forum suddenly becomes an expert on whatever topic they're discussing without reservation for mistake or non absolutes?
Of course. I am an expert at reading people, and never make mistakes in the area, so I noticed this trend immediately.

:p ;)
 
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Of course. I am an expert at reading people, and never make mistakes in the area, so I noticed this trend immediately.

:p ;)
I'm not accusing you of anything, Karlington. You're fine, you beautiful beast.
 
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English:

My wife ordered an English language course from net. First question from delivering company was: "Do you like to learn British English or American English?" :)