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LiberiusX

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Victoria 2 is dead, CK2 are alive. Feel the difference.
Personnaly, I don't like Victoria 2, because I don't like to play as GPs (ones available from the start). All (well, many) the other countries are very difficult to play and succeed as. In Victoria, you either big or in smbds sphere...

I completely disagree. With some understanding of the economy and diplomacy, it's actually pretty easy to reach GP status as most countries. Getting sphered is a strategy for advancement, not a hindrance, as it means access to your GP's markets/resources and a good chance no one will attack you. With that, you can turn a 2 state minor into a GP by 1900 by simple industrialization alone and begin sphereing your neighbors. You can even do this without any coal or iron of your own.

I encourage you to try a campaign as Japan or one of the South American countries. I am thinking about a Siam campaign next...

PS. If your definition of fun is to get to GP#1, then Vicky2 will not be so much fun. I find, for many nations, you have to twist and contort the rules/reality(or be an unusually lucky warmonger) in such a way so as to make the game unpleasurable. War is a useful tool, but the real meat of the game is economy/pop management. And using that to bring a backward nation into GP status and holding it there is a real treat.
 

Tom013

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Objectively speaking, I believe that Victoria is soon to get a third iteration. Remember the Paradox poll where you could vote for Vic3 or Rome2?
So in that perspective, as a newcomer, I would buy CK2 and then wait for Vicky3, then buy that.

You people keep saying that, but V3 hasn't been announced and HOI4 was announced a year ago and will come out sometime in the next 4 months (if they meet their timeline of Q1-2015). V3 hasn't been announced, so even by a generous estimate, you have over a year to wait and that assumes they've actually already started working on it and are just about to announce, an idea I believe possible but find unlikely given their previous statements. Even so, that gives you a YEAR to play V2 which is still a great game.

I am thinking about a Siam campaign next...

Siam is quite fun for a while, but I found my game, at least, slowed down at the end. I had solid tech, decent development, had devoured a bunch of regional neighbors... A secondary power, I was strong enough to deter any would-be aggressor GPs, but I wasn't really in a position to challenge Britain or Japan for the remaining neighbors. Still 90 years of fun gameplay is pretty good.
 

lizardo

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Depends upon what you like to play, V2 is more about the production and economics as well as war, CKII is more about the leader relationships and how different hereditary systems can screw you.

I generally favor V2. But Vicky is ground zero for the HoI vs EU design war, so it has a lot of concepts that don't work well.
 

sumo0

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Actually vicky 3 was unofficially announced in some dev video. One of the people started talking about vicky 3 as under development by accident.
 

migalhone

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Actually vicky 3 was unofficially announced in some dev video. One of the people started talking about vicky 3 as under development by accident.

Do you remember what video it was? I would love to hear that myself.
 

LiberiusX

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Depends upon what you like to play, V2 is more about the production and economics as well as war, CKII is more about the leader relationships and how different hereditary systems can screw you.

I generally favor V2. But Vicky is ground zero for the HoI vs EU design war, so it has a lot of concepts that don't work well.

What do you mean about the design war? I don't have HOI(though I intend on buying HOI4 eventually). If there is a design war in Vicky between EU and HOI, and EU4 is a design war between CKII and Vicky 2, then one can only wonder what Vicky 3 will bring us.

Do you remember what video it was? I would love to hear that myself.

It was during one of DLC announcement videos...I think Wealth of Nations, or maybe AoW. And I'm pretty sure it was Johan who mentioned it, so who knows if it was meant as a troll or a genuine slip of the tongue.

vicky

crusaders seemed to me more like Sims where all you do is marry stuff

This. I've been turned off from CKII ever since my Savoy game where it always seemed like when I was finally making progress toward a major goal, a series of horrendous events would wipe out large swathes of my dynasty. Not assassinations, but things like wives getting depressed and/or chaste, or my duke being a lustful midas touched having only 1 kid who turned out to be homosexual. It felt as though the game(on top of the AI) was out to get me for being successful.

Confirmation bias, I'm sure, but a complete and utter waste of time. At least in Vicky 2, when you have setbacks it doesn't usually ruin the rest of the game.
 
Last edited:

WeissRaben

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Victoria II. CK2 is a great game, that much is true. On the other hand, V2 is alive. What you do - whatever you do, in fact - has some consequence somewhere in your nation, whether it's building a factory or recruiting a brigade. Many changes are not obvious or singularly significant, but there are a lot of them, and they pile up fast. EU4 is...the ugly duckling, really, only there's no certainty it's going to become a swan - even if there's a lot of potential.
 

redlion

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As a statistician, I would just like to say that real simulations are real boring. I'm very happy that EU4 is such a bad simulator, because it's a cornerstone of what makes it such a great game. :v
That's a very philosophic position for you to take :p

Obviously there has to be some element of fantasy for the simulations to be fun. In EU4 I would say that simplification is most prominent in combat (obviously) to make it more manageable for human players (especially in MP) but also in ways like the smattering of cores for nations that never existed. This allows the game to vary from reality enough to get an outcome different from the historical world we have today, and vary gameplay in the process. You notice Angola doesn't have cores or a colonial region, but Ruthenia and the Slavic cultures (all the way from Russia into the Balkans) have cores that represent ideas of nationhood that didn't yet exist at game start, or existed in a very nascent form. Don't even get me started on considering some of the "natives" of South America and Siberia as nation states. Those are features that I enjoy about EU4, as I assume you do.

Having not played either of the recommended games myself, I can only offer my opinion from what I've read and analyzed here. It sounds to me like Victoria 2 is more static and economic - much harder to form a nation like Ruthenia. I think this also relates to the time period covered by the game. I like medieval and Enlightenment age type games, and modernism doesn't appeal to me as much. I mean, the beginners guide for Vic2 says to start as Brazil. I don't want to play a game where I can start as Brazil :p

Crusader Kings by comparison sounds much more open, much more warlike in it's general play style. It also seems to be more sandbox-ish than the other two games. Do whatever you want, sorta. But the tradeoffs are a complex relations management system and a limited map. I like the liege system and having that sort of medieval government type going on, but again this is all from reading - no experience with either game.