Crusader Kings 2: Obesity Simulator

[Synsensa]

I've recently come back to CK2 after a few years of not playing. New events, cool! New traits, awesome!

So, obesity. What's the deal with that? I've probably put in about 15-20 hours in the game since returning. Over that span, I've had at least 30 characters over three separate saves.

Every single one of those characters has gotten the "Oh no, I'm fat, I have to diet!" event at least 3 times per lifetime, regardless of traits. I assume some traits increase prevalence, but it's been every single one.

Look, I like the event. It's pretty cool.

I don't like the event happening several times per character. I don't believe eating yourself into obesity is so prevalent an issue amongst the medieval nobility that it's an ever-present monster lurking in the shadows. If it were just flavour text, then fine, but it comes with debuffs regardless of which choice you pick.

Is this event chain working as intended or have I just been incredibly unlucky?

Is this game sending me subliminal messages?

 

[Vetgirig]

Think there is a sin that makes it happen. Get rid of Gluttonous.

 

[killerbee256]

Characters can also get anorexia which if they take the temporate choice to many times. This gives the malnutrished trait and dark circles around their eye in the portrait.

 

[vandevere]

I've recently come back to CK2 after a few years of not playing. New events, cool! New traits, awesome!

So, obesity. What's the deal with that? I've probably put in about 15-20 hours in the game since returning. Over that span, I've had at least 30 characters over three separate saves.

Every single one of those characters has gotten the "Oh no, I'm fat, I have to diet!" event at least 3 times per lifetime, regardless of traits. I assume some traits increase prevalence, but it's been every single one.

Look, I like the event. It's pretty cool.

I don't like the event happening several times per character. I don't believe eating yourself into obesity is so prevalent an issue amongst the medieval nobility that it's an ever-present monster lurking in the shadows. If it were just flavour text, then fine, but it comes with debuffs regardless of which choice you pick.

Is this event chain working as intended or have I just been incredibly unlucky?

Is this game sending me subliminal messages?

I've had that happen with Temperate characters. Like I'm eating and drinking moderately, getting decent exercise, and out of the blue, Boom! You're fat!

Lifestyle traits don't seem to matter. Your character's age doesn't matter either.

Really, if you're going to add obesity to the Game, maybe you should limit it to the characters that are Gluttonous? A Temperate character should not be getting the Fat Trait for any reason.

 

[Rags17]

A few things to note.

First off, the game now has a "scale of obesity" which gets worse the higher up on it you are. It usually (but not always) starts with Gluttonous, but can also be triggered by Carousing, being Decadent or Content (I think) and old age (I am certain). Gluttonous is now simply an opinion and general trait malus and means that your character eats and or drinks to excess.

Naturally if you do eat and drink to excess or are older, or have a lifestyle that encourages overeating and excess, then your character may get Fat. Being Fat is not necessarily a bad thing either, although it does reduce your personal combat skill and tribal opinion of you. What being Fat DOES do however is make you susceptible to all sorts of hidden disease and illness event chains that can now pop up. An otherwise fit and healthy (ie high Health) Fat person could spend their entire life being Fat but suffering no ill effects. OTOH, for most people being fat will start leading to all sorts of issues such as Chest Pains, Fatigue and so on, leading right up to death.

I have an ongoing random world campaign that I started as soon as HF came out. I got a bit bored so I went on to observer mode for 100 years, when I came back I found that the current ruler was Gluttonous, Fat, Content and generally very much hated throughout the realm. I took the option to get thin when it came up, I also took the Martial focus to get fit. In short order I lost the Fat trait and all of the associated maluses, I then took the Theology focus and lost the Gluttonous trait and was suddenly a lean mean fighting machine. I finished up by reordering the realm and spreading gifts and honors around until pretty soon everyone loved me, it was the greatest Biggest Loser episode I had ever seen !


TL;DR - Being Gluttonous usually leads to becoming Fat, neither are bad by themselves but can lead to all sorts of health issues, both can be lost via good lifestyle choices and taking the temperate options whenever they arise. Whoda thunk it, eh ?!

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I've had that happen with Temperate characters. Like I'm eating and drinking moderately, getting decent exercise, and out of the blue, Boom! You're fat!

Lifestyle traits don't seem to matter. Your character's age doesn't matter either.

Really, if you're going to add obesity to the Game, maybe you should limit it to the characters that are Gluttonous? A Temperate character should not be getting the Fat Trait for any reason.

Obesity is as much based on genetics as it is eating habits (which can obviously exacerbate things). So even someone Temperate should still have a chance of becoming fat depending on their genetics.

 

[Rokh]

Like I'm eating and drinking moderately, getting decent exercise, and out of the blue, Boom! You're fat!

Just like in real life.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

on the other hand you can become fat, jolly and lovable which is nice

 

[Zepheyr]

on the other hand you can become fat, jolly and lovable which is nice

Everyone loves Santa and he eats tons of cookies.

 

[ZacmanTheDamned]

Don't forget as well that if one of your Courtiers dislikes you, they might get an event to convince you that you're a fatass/thinass. I think there's a stat requirement to see through it as well, because I often don't get a choice to avoid it. When that happens, though it's not that you're actually thin/fat - it's that your courtier is a petty prick, and is trying to mess with your health (you can also get an event randomly to be the instigator, and you don't seem to even have to dislike them very much.)

 

[makaramus]

Obesity is as much based on genetics as it is eating habits (which can obviously exacerbate things). So even someone Temperate should still have a chance of becoming fat depending on their genetics.

I dont understand why this gets so much dislike
very temperate person can get fat. not just because of genetics but also if he is not active a lot. (as example a king who running his kingdom for its properity for his entire life at his room that praying to his god and following its orders)
even if he eat little

 

[Rags17]

Everyone loves Santa and he eats tons of cookies.

Literally !

If Santa delivers presents to say one billion children on Christmas night and each child leaves two cookies weighing say 15 grams each, then he would have to eat around 30 million kilograms or 30,000 tonnes of cookies each Christmas night.

I pity the reindeer as they return to the North pole just before dawn !

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Our modern concept of obesity and its prevalence is based on the post-war Western diet which for all sorts of dubious reasons was moved from a grain-based high-fat diet to a protein-based high carb diet with very little fat.

Funny thing - if you have a low fat diet you tend to overeat carbs and sugar and you get... fat. This has a lot more to do with poor diet then quantity or genetics. Medieval Lords would tend to eat a lot at banquets but the meals would have been a lot of roast meat, breads, pastries etc. with very little sugar and, crucially, no starch-filled potatoes.

If you look at depictions of people in the medieval world very few are overweight vs today because their diet discouraged it. Also, everybody in the medieval world had to perform more physical work with no cars, lifts, trains or mechanical assistance of any kind, really, until the very end of the period. So if you want to get to the third floor where your bedchamber is you're going to have to climb three flights of stairs. That's another point - medieval castles don't have wide stairways, an obese person wouldn't fiot through most doors or stairs in a medieval castle.

 

[Eldath]

I wish I could get rid of this feature.
I play monastic characters and doing penance 3 times in a row permanently turns me malnourished forever :'(

 

[Rokh]

Our modern concept of obesity and its prevalence is based on the post-war Western diet which for all sorts of dubious reasons was moved from a grain-based high-fat diet to a protein-based high carb diet with very little fat.

Funny thing - if you have a low fat diet you tend to overeat carbs and sugar and you get... fat.

Wait, I don't get it. Aren't grains like wheat and rice very rich in carbohydrates? And why would eating a lot of non-sugar carbohydrates make you fat? I understand that Medieval people's energy usage was completely different from today's, but through history most settled peoples have had very carbohydrate-rich diets (again, not inluding sucrose), although obesity has varied wildly. Also, why does eating less fat make you fat?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Obesity is as much based on genetics as it is eating habits (which can obviously exacerbate things). So even someone Temperate should still have a chance of becoming fat depending on their genetics.

Obesity is definitely not mostly based on genetics. If you have a metabolic disease (hypothyroidism or other endocrine problems for example) then you can make a legit case for genetics. Especially in those times, there'd be nothing you could do about it.

For the overwhelming majority of cases with overweight/obesity it's a matter of eating/activity though. It might be more common in CK2 than it was in reality back then though.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Obesity is definitely not mostly based on genetics. If you have a metabolic disease (hypothyroidism or other endocrine problems for example) then you can make a legit case for genetics. Especially in those times, there'd be nothing you could do about it.

For the overwhelming majority of cases with overweight/obesity it's a matter of eating/activity though. It might be more common in CK2 than it was in reality back then though.

True, but I didn't say that it was mostly based on genetics, just that they play a role. You should expect to see some people who don't eat much getting overweight, because that happens sometimes, just like some gluttonous people hit the metabolism jackpot and remain relatively thin. Being gluttonous should definitely have a strong impact on getting the fat trait (and it does as far as I know), and being temperate should reduce the chance of it, but I think that it should definitely still be possible in the latter case, because that is a thing that happens.

 

[Kaunaz]

Just like in real life.

Not like in real life, because gaining weight is something that happens over time and not right away, and you can't be both eating moderately and getting decent exercise and still get fat without some sort of serious medical issue.

True, but I didn't say that it was mostly based on genetics, just that they play a role. You should expect to see some people who don't eat much getting overweight, because that happens sometimes, just like some gluttonous people hit the metabolism jackpot and remain relatively thin. Being gluttonous should definitely have a strong impact on getting the fat trait (and it does as far as I know), and being temperate should reduce the chance of it, but I think that it should definitely still be possible in the latter case, because that is a thing that happens.

Metabolism doesn't work like this. Calories in, calories out.

 

[Rags17]

Not like in real life, because gaining weight is something that happens over time and not right away, and you can't be both eating moderately and getting decent exercise and still get fat without some sort of serious medical issue.

Metabolism doesn't work like this. Calories in, calories out.

I'm no expert but here's my real life experience. Three years ago I got diagnosed with severe heart disease and was booked in for a multiple bypass operation (which succeeded, thanks for asking !). To help the process along I pledged to lose a bunch of weight, eventually dropping from 103 kilograms at the start (October 2016) to 87 kilos just before my operation in April 2017. I started walking 5 km every single day rain or shine and also started counting my kilojoules (calories) religiously.

By my maths I should have lost around 20 kilos but only ended up losing 16. I looked at my walking and apart from a few days at the beginning where I was still working up to my 5 km limit I walked every day without fail, even Christmas and New Years day ! The shortfall was therefor in my eating, and after thinking about it I realised that I had cheated a bit here and there so that must be where the problem lay. The walking is almost purely mathematical (I was weight X, age Y, walking distance Z every single day), so I could calculate EXACTLY how many kJ I had burned, but I couldn't be so precise with the eating.

TL;DR - Even if you think that you are eating and exercising right it is possible to develop bad habits that lead to weight gain (or reduced weight loss) without you realising it. Just ask any middle aged white male !

 

[kbernges]

Interestingly, I've had exactly the opposite experience. Almost every character I've had ends up a hollowed-out skeleton with no one bothering to convince him or her to maybe not starve themselves to death. I did have one character ALMOST go fat, but get convinced otherwise.... and eventually took it too far, in fact.