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cassius769

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Dear Paradox people,

do you think it would be possible to merge strategic part of Crusader Kings 2 with tactical battles of Mount and Blade: Warband?
It would be just explosive mixture I believe. Especially if you allowed the player to control the army like in Total War series. That could depend on the level of technology developed for tactics. Starting from simple ability to give order to attack and going to more sophisticated control of units....
Does it appeal to you fellow players?
 

Olaus Petrus

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I want to play my grand strategy games without annoying distractions like tactical battles of Total War series.
 
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3Form

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Not with mod.

Thanks, I'll give it a go :)

Still don't think tactical battles are the way to go for CK2. What if your own character isn't even involved in the battle? Do you still get to command the action?

Even so, the level of control that one has in the TW series isn't really appropriate. I'm not saying the Middle Ages were devoid of tactics, far from it, but for one man?
 
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grisamentum

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I think it would be very hard to make this work well, but I would guess that you'd only participate in battles your character was present for. We already have events that work that way (battle events, crusader thing, etc.)

The only problem is that right now, you can teleport your character around to every battle if you want (assuming your crown authority is high enough to replace leaders).
 

RooksBailey

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I want to play my grand strategy games without annoying distractions like tactical battles of Total War series.

This. I enjoy the chess-like abstracted strategizing more than TW's tedious real time battles. Not that one is better than the other, just that we already have the TW formula, so I am grateful for a different approach, and one more suited to being a king.
 

Aardvark Bellay

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On KnightsofHonor: With Laudans "MOD-HARD InvasionEconomic" battles became not only much better and fun and stress, but also many times necessary, at least in the beginning when you are weak. KoH without the mod though lacks some stuff and i never played it without the mod anymore. Just saying...
 

Rambo

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Dear Paradox people,

do you think it would be possible to merge strategic part of Crusader Kings 2 with tactical battles of Mount and Blade: Warband?
It would be just explosive mixture I believe. Especially if you allowed the player to control the army like in Total War series. That could depend on the level of technology developed for tactics. Starting from simple ability to give order to attack and going to more sophisticated control of units....
Does it appeal to you fellow players?

I agree, but not like total war, like mount and blade. Mount and blade battles are more fun, because you actually get to fight. But even if the battles were like total war, I wouldnt complain.
I think it would be an awesome game, something spectacular.

Imagine the role playing, not only do you get to control your dynasty, but actually use them in battle as well. Imagine all those troops that you have in your army would actually mean something now, instead of just trying to get the largest army possible (because currently that is all that matters), you will actually tailor your army towards certain troops types, and be able to use real tactics! It would be a dream game, I would give my left nut for a game like that.

Honestly i don't see why it would be so hard to create a game like that. I mean if P'dox could bring contract the taleworlds people to insert their battle engine into CKII. All they would need to do is have their battle engine create a battlefield based on the troops that are in your armies, and then make some random castles and battlefields, and presto. They could leave the campaign map and everything else exactly as it is now.
 

Wezqu

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Even Paradox's own King Arthur and The Kings' Crusade has better real time battles than TW series. Made the mistake of buying two of TW series games and found out that the battle system was not fun at all. This is not the case with King Arthur and The Kings' Crusade games as on my opinion it works better in them.
 
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olvirki

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Or they could somehow implement the dynasty focus into a Mount and Blade game. It would be hard to mix them right. But on the other hand Mount and Blade already has marriages, they would only have to speed up the time, allow children to be born, allow you to start as your heir if you die and some small things that are needed.
 

parachute

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Best middle age game ever was Defender of the Crown (C64). You had minigames when sneaking into castles, taking part in tournaments and the like. Minigames get repetitive after a while (Pirates!) but that's fine if they are short! In a game like CK2 something like that would be hilarious... Of course it would be best to enhance the strategy part of this game by the factor 1000. Cause as it is now there's not too much strategy in this strategy game and not enough role-playing (story) in the RPG part. But maybe I am greedy. Space Rangers was a masterpiece btw. Haha. Ban me for mentioning it. Please.
 

cassius769

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Fair enough. But there should be an option to immerse in tactical battle with all consequences to the game including falling in battle. If you bother yourself to command.
 

cassius769

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I agree, but not like total war, like mount and blade. Mount and blade battles are more fun, because you actually get to fight. But even if the battles were like total war, I wouldnt complain.
I think it would be an awesome game, something spectacular.

Imagine the role playing, not only do you get to control your dynasty, but actually use them in battle as well. Imagine all those troops that you have in your army would actually mean something now, instead of just trying to get the largest army possible (because currently that is all that matters), you will actually tailor your army towards certain troops types, and be able to use real tactics! It would be a dream game, I would give my left nut for a game like that.

Honestly i don't see why it would be so hard to create a game like that. I mean if P'dox could bring contract the taleworlds people to insert their battle engine into CKII. All they would need to do is have their battle engine create a battlefield based on the troops that are in your armies, and then make some random castles and battlefields, and presto. They could leave the campaign map and everything else exactly as it is now.


I agree Warband battles are more fun than TW. What I meant was that with technological development and reserach one sholud be given expansion in options during the battle i.e. starting with bunch of guys and giving them signal to attack or flee through more advanced options like dividing them into cavalry, infantry etc and ending with special traits or formations, improved tactics on the battlefield. You name it - the field is broad and open.
 

NCreepy

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Dear Paradox people,

do you think it would be possible to merge strategic part of Crusader Kings 2 with tactical battles of Mount and Blade: Warband?
It would be just explosive mixture I believe. Especially if you allowed the player to control the army like in Total War series. That could depend on the level of technology developed for tactics. Starting from simple ability to give order to attack and going to more sophisticated control of units....
Does it appeal to you fellow players?


I'd rather just play M&B warband then to be honest. It's a good game too :)
 

Pode

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+1, so want this as an optional combat system for armies where the player's character is leading his capital holding's troops. (Tying a leader's appearance to the presence of the levy from his capital holding would solve the teleporting problem.)

I envision an expanded CKII engine generating the parties for a Warband combat scene, with the reinforcement waves corresponding to the individual levys from CK2. Combat would start with the leader's personal levy on the field, responding to the M&B commands by unit type. Your other levys would appear on field under AI control if they were led by a vassal/courtier and under yours if they had no leader.
There's already a decent mapping between real world culture and the stock M&B cultures. There's existing M&B mods that include morale. Troop composition maps relatively straightforwardly. CK tech levels could map onto available equipment. You'd select the order your vassals appeared on the field, with how many you could arrange governed by your CK2 martial & diplomacy skills and your tactics tech level, the rest showing up in order of their skills.
When your character engaged in combat, you'd get a stripped down M&B character creation / level up menu, followed by a store limited to culture specific items. Age and CK2 health would determine your HP, CK2 strong would give M&B ironflesh skill, culture and CK2 martial skill would determine your weapon proficiencies and combat skills, CK2 income would give you an allowance to buy M&B equipment with, etc. Kills in battle could trigger an event that gave you brave or craven, losing a lot of HP would get you wounded or maimed, killing your own men would get you wroth
A set of hidden CK2 traits like has_M&B_item_#x would allow truly awesome things like looting a quality sword from an enemy mid battle and years later handing it down to your son when he came of age and you named him heir. Who then would be able to spend his income allowance on better armor / horse, since he already had a fine sword. Lieges could pay a fixed amount of money to give their vassals a quality item for a small relations boost from the honorary titles menu. All kinds of fascinating tie ins become possible.
Code wise, I'd think an expansion exe that essentially alt-tabbed between the existing CK2 and an existing M&B install. Create a CK2 save, parse it to create the M&B levelup/store interface, save the players choices there, use the relevant info to create the M&B battle scene, then pass that to the M&B engine, resolve the combat, write relevant traits into a new CK2 save, and load that new save into CK2 to resume play.
 
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