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They are dismissed on peace.

AFRICANS !!!! WHAT ABOUT THE BLOODY AFRICANS!!!!!!

why do you hate the africans so damn much !!!!
is it because migrants and immigration ?

we need to MakeAfricaGreatAgain!!

seriously though, i would love to see some improvements and more depth provided towards the west africans, and the continent in general. it was rich with trade during this time.
especially the horn of africa region.

Uh, the Africans are also defensive pagans and also get that stuff.

I love how EU4 team went on July vacation and won't be posting DDs until August. But CK2 team will (it seems) :D

We almost did these DDs in the reverse order, but I am here this week and Doomdark is here next week, so it works out better this way. I've also pre-written two more DDs to cover the last 2 weeks in July :)
 
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Could we get a part of the patch notes? Like with the Horse Lords DD's? It would make this drawn out period a little bit easier.

Code:
- The expiry date for timed opinion modifiers is now shown in the tooltip
- Several buttons that were missing a click sound now have one - Examples being the buttons in the Era Picker, Focus window, Barber window and more!
- Cloud saves are now sorted newest to oldest, like local saves
 
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Thanks for the DD, especially given Swedish approach to July :). I like the changes, the Ancestor Worship will be very cool thing to experience on my next pagan playthrough:). Can we also hope for some smaller events/decision/flavour for non-Norse European pagans, especially Slavs, Romuva, and Suomenusko <hopefuleyes>?

Just to be extra clear, defensive pagans are:
Code:
                religion = finnish_pagan
                religion = finnish_pagan_reformed
                religion = west_african_pagan
                religion = west_african_pagan_reformed
                religion = baltic_pagan
                religion = baltic_pagan_reformed
                religion = slavic_pagan
                religion = slavic_pagan_reformed

So they're the ones getting Ancestor Worship and Devout Warriors. Other than that. there's no more unique content for them yet, but it would be nice to make more at some point.
 
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Questions, so if, you're a norwegian catholic king with unrestricted raiding game rules. Will you still be able to get that three viking traits?

No, they are tied to the Norse religion.

Will defensive pagans still have the raise tribal army decission? If not this just feels like gimping them even further.

That's an odd conclusion to leap to. Yes, they still have Raise Tribal Army.
 
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So, more stuff for already grossly overpowered vikings, and more gender equality in an age where gender equality was near non-existent. What a waste of time and effort.
I was glad to see more content for Pagans at first, but then I realized that PDS is staying true to their policy of "Norse best, Norse unique, all other pagans generic". How nice.

It's hard not to write sarcastic answers to posts like this, but I'll try. While making <Secret DLC> I've been playing a Norse game (AND reading the Last Kingdom series) and I though more Viking traits and a Crusader equivalent would be fun, so I added them. At the same time I am aware players want more content for Defensive Pagans, so I asked one of the other Content Designers to make some stuff for them, and Ancestor Worship was the result. I think it's rather weird to get upset over free, unscheduled content I added basically out of the kindness of my heart just because it doesn't address your specific pet peeves. If you are really passionate about whatever else you think should be added, why not try making a mod for yourselves and others, or at least propose some ideas and I might add them - especially if/when I get another to playing another Pagan game and start thinking about what else I'd like to see.

Why dont all reformed pagans have that trait?
I think it would be better with all pagans.

Well I don't know about Valhalla-bound for everyone, but something would be nice. Mostly it's a matter of time and inspiration.

Good DD - I always enjoy the love for pagans...
A question though, when asking ancestors for guidance, does this regards as a "fantasy/superstition-setting"? Here I think about the earlier DD, where you explained I could click certain things on and off, so I am curious if this will be regarded as such. It kinds of lands a bit between reality and fantasy in my eyes, which is great, I just don't want to exclude something like this, but on the other hand, I don't want events about UFO's and Care Bears invading the coasts of Europe...

No, we don't regard this as fantasy content. People pray and attribute things which happen to being a result of those prayers all the time. The fantasy toggle disables things like Immortality and the Spawn of Satan events.

Nice, hopefully defensive pagans will get even more flavour in the future. Are the various pagan religions advisors still called court chaplains on the council? I think only the Slavic one has a unique title called diviner, I think it's a bug, didn't they all use to have appropriate titles such as seer and shaman?

Huh, I'll check it out, but I certainly have a Seer in my Norse game.
 
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OK, i was too sarcastic and i apologize for it. I was just mildly annoyed to get even more party & gender equality stuff in the patch instead of a DLC. If it was DLC content, fine, i simply wouldn´t buy it (like HL), but having it in the free patch means i get female advisor events in agnatic realms, vikings with even more oomph and pagans who magically conjure up troops from nowhere no matter what.
As to making suggestions, there are several dozens of them from me in the suggestions forum - and even more in the bug report forum.

I'll have a look then. I read though a lot of the suggestion forum before starting this DLC, but at the time I wasn't planning any new pagan stuff so I didn't pay special attention.
 
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I, alongside many others, have made posts with suggestions for improving Slavs, and all of those (even those prior to TOG, those expressing the worry that your policy will be the one I mentioned) were promptly ignored. And I did make a mod for a while about them, I only stopped working on it because CKII was unenjoyable for me after a while.

I don't expect you to keep up with internal paradox posting, so let me explain: This DLC is the first time I have been working on CK2 since before it was released. In turn, you should understand I don't know everything that has ever been posted on this forum. If you have made suggestions in the past, great, but if you are complaining to me now you really need to recap or link them if you want me to know about them, or I may or may not see them when I take a look through old suggestions.

Female advisiors did happen in medieval era even in agnatic realms. Agnatic is just the inheritance. What's the problem? Just because you belief things like this are not fitting because you don't know much about how it was? You already get an opinion malus with your vassals if you get a female advisior this portraits that your vassals don't like this decision.

You can also simply reject them with no downside.

Can we also have this kind of event for (even moderately) talented female vassals? In particular if they would normally considered a powerful vassal?

It isn't currently the case, but it's a good idea if we have time.
 
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Oddly enough, the same argument works against you. If you wanted more content for Norse pagans, why not make your update a mod and upload it to Steam workshop, and instead devote your time on the company clock to improving aspects of the game that need it more badly? You have to understand people have a different expectation of developers than they do of modders because people are essentially paying for the continued development of the game whenever we buy DLC.

edit: There are a lot more culture that need updates more than Norse do. How about updating Muslims for example? Or another example - the time spent working on Norse updates instead could've been spent updating Papal excommunication - a feature that's been practically meaningless in the game for years yet was commonplace in medieval life.

No, it doesn't. There's no budgeted or assigned "Update pagan" time here, I did it because I felt like it. Now of course, if you don't like what we're doing you can choose not to buy what we sell, but you in no way get to dictate what I do beyond that. If I feel like adding stuff I find fun I will do so, aside from that all I have to do is what my boss assigns me. If for some reason I hadn't felt like adding Pagan content you would not necessarily have gotten anything else interesting in exchange.

E: This is a super-weird "Don't be passionate about your game and add bonus stuff to it" tangent
 
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No, it doesn't. There's no budgeted or assigned "Update pagan" time here, I did it because I felt like it. Now of course, if you don't like what we're doing you can choose not to buy what we sell, but you in no way get to dictate what I do beyond that. If I feel like adding stuff I find fun I will do so, aside from that all I have to do is what my boss assigns me. If for some reason I hadn't felt like adding Pagan content you would not necessarily have gotten anything else interesting in exchange.

E: This is a super-weird "Don't be passionate about your game and add bonus stuff to it" tangent
God damn even when you add free stuff into the game people still complain, only solution now is to hire everyone so they can make the changes they want to the game!
 
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Actually, you don't understand. People have a different expectation of a development team than they do of modders. Modders can work on personal projects and things they personally want to see updated because they're working for their own satisfaction. People expect developers to work on things that need to be updated because they're being paid for it. Regardless of whether this content is part of the free patch, the fact remains people are paying for the continued development of the game whenever they buy DLC. How come Vicky 2 or HoI3 doesn't get free updates like this? Because the post-release development of those games halted years ago when Paradox stopped selling DLC for them.
Paradox employs people who are enthusiastic about our games, and tend to go the extra mile to add things they're passionate about. As a point of fact, Vicky 2 did get a patch recently because developers who are also fans of the game worked on it out their own accord.
I don't really see how that can be viewed as a bad thing for the game but to each their own, I guess.
 
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It sounds like a poor way to structure your company when people are given free time to work on whatever they please haphazardly while other features that need fixing go for years without updates. And no - I'm not complaining specifically about non-Norse pagans. Look around the forums and you'll find plenty of requests for updated mechanics. Take the whole Flanders debacle that only took years to fix as an example.

Actually, letting people work on what they find interesting is the proven best way to keep people motivated, productive, and creative. I dunno, delete all the new free content and pretend I only made the DLC and didn't bother giving everyone extra free stuff if it troubles you so much.

I for one find it disconcerting that the development team is, this late in the game, basing what they add to CK2 on what TV show they watched last night. There are thousands of various suggestions, millions of hours of combined gameplay, years of forum engagement to pore over. There are gaping wounds in the gameplay that have been created by a too-much recycled team and set of mechanics. He joins the CK2 dev team years on, fleshes out an already over-serviced part of the game in lieu of using that paid time provided to him by all our DLC purchases to respond to longstanding popular requests, and you insist that it's alright as long as he's having fun? Yeah, I'm not 100% comfortable with that.

No one mentioned a TV show, please do read what you reply to. Again, feel free to delete or ignore this free content if it offends you. Other people seem enthused about it, I enjoyed making it, you're not the centre of the universe. Instead of complaining that I dared to make something you personally would not have chosen, why not constructively post about what in particular you would like to see improved? For bonus points, see if you can come up with something which could be done in a comparable amount of time, only by Content Designers, which garners 100% agreement - if you succeed I might even add it, because it would be an impressive achievement.

@Darkrenown

1.) can Slavic Pagans get the decision to raise a Balwan Idol for their various gods/goddesses?
2.) Can all pagans get a new religious action for court Chaplins, Divination, where you send out your court chaplin to perform sacrifices and divination for the populace; this would function rather similarly to the muslim give charity. It could replace the prostlyization action(with a rare chance to actually convert people)
3.) Some things for pagan mystics.
4.) Minor sacrifices to the various deities of your particular faith as a pagan(with the option of sacrfiicing to other pagan faiths gods if you own a province of them.
:)

Good ideas, #1 especially.

I made a note of all the posts with Pagan suggestions for if/when we have time to add more.

Just to be clear, these are all free features, right? If so, this patch is amazing!

Yeah, everything in this DD is free stuff.

Actual supernatural powers? Sounds like fantasy garbage. I don't want this in my game.

"Although, skeptics might point out that there’s no evidence the ancestors actually did anything and you may simply be giving them credit for a happy coincidence, that isn’t the kind of thought a pious man ought to have."

Right in what you quoted.

Also, can you confirm that you are only referring to the DLC as <Secret> for lack of a better name that encourages us to spend our money on it? :D

Literally we just haven't announced it yet so I am not allowed to use the real name. It is a bit silly I know.
 
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Come on, it's a mechanic which gives you magical events. Yeah you can say that it might not be real supernatural events, but as a game mechanic that's what it is. You make a sacrifice and then an event fires, which wouldn't otherwise fire.

Yes, but the life of characters isn't simulated outside of events, so "coincidences" cannot happen without us firing them - it seems like you could as well argue tournaments or hunts appear by magic when you click the button and I'd argue that the effect of getting what you pray for could be attributed to something like the baader-meinhof phenomenon. However, no, we don't class this as fantasy content. It is a decision though, so it's never going to happen for you if you don't click it.
 
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Also the earlier starts have some issues as well, like how the existence of de jure Aquatine basically cripples France in all the starts it is present in.

Spoiling a future DD slightly, but we have set the AI not to create Aquatine unless it is close to creating Frankia.

Any chance that the annoying behavior of how loading autosaves breaks the automatic save folder feature was looked at? (Specifically, when a game is first quick-saved, it creates a subfolder in the save folder with the dynasty name, and puts the save in it, and all the future saves are meant to go in there. However, it does this by placing future saves in the same directory as the save the game was loaded from that session, so if you load from an autosave, all the new saves you make are placed in the top level savegame folder instead.) This could be fixed by simply having the autosaves go in those subfolders as well, which is what Stellaris does. (As I've mentioned on Twitter, I'm of the opinion that Stellaris has the best save game management of all the Paradox games, and any future games should follow its example.)

A good point.

Any chance you could be convinced to try a Miaphysite or Ibadi game?

Ideally yes, but ask me for anything but time.

First of, I like the additional events! The more the merrier is how the saying goes, right?

Now, I know this is pretty off topic, so I don't expect an answer, but are there any plans to rework gavelkind and the AI use of it? I'm asking only because I really would like to play a game where I don't deviate from gavelkind due to the mess it creates. And I'm not talking about border gore per se. I would love to have a gavelkind mechanic, where I can choose which heir is going to get what, based on a value system for titles and holdings. I don't mind my realm breaking apart now and again, if it helps with keeping areas from blobbing. But I hate that the AI will almost always opt for primogeniture, for example. This leads to the inevitable situation that there will be AI blobs (apparently the AI favours anything but gavelkind), while I will have to either adapt to primogeniture myself, to stay competitive, or see anything I've built crumble. Also, I like to focus on several holdings, which is another thorn in my side, when I see those holdings be lost, while other holdings are kept. As far as I know, most of the time the second and third got some lesser titles in order to make a name for themselves, while 4th and onwards mostly received monetary compensation, if at all. I would love to be able to keep a second duchy title, while having to give out holdings, for example, so that a smaller realm might still stay together. I can understand kingdoms breaking apart, but I would also love to see a path, where I give out titles in an "unfair" distribution only for the pretenders to try to scheme or trying to take what is "rightfully theirs" by force. Overall, gavelkind is not fun to play with, in my opinion, and I would just like to see a system where I can actually plan out how it goes down when my character bites the dust.

edit: Also, as I just saw it, the loading screen tip that children tend to get the same traits as their guardians is, as far as I know it, quite out-dated.

I think some kind of will system would be great for gavelkind, but I could not say if/when we'd be able to make one. I would also say my general impression is that the majority of players hate losing land and would work to move out of it ASAP no matter what we do with it.

A slightly more enthusiastic meh.

Progress!
 
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A pretty long page is not enough, comparing this to the number of warrior men that existed, if you make a proportion, the chance is miniscule to find a woman warrior among an army in medieval times.
And yeah, I agree that event chains for women councillors could be good, but the way paradox is making them is pretty terrible, it's too commonplace, as I said. I'm not critiquing adding the ability to have female councillors, I'm critiquing the fact of how paradox is adding it is too ahistorical, which I would be fine with if there would be a way to turn it off, but as far as it seems, there won't be any. The idea for female councillors and rare historical occasions is good, but the realization is terrible, as it's too unhistorically easy to get a female councillor, which breaks immersion. I would be okay with this if paradox made this either better, or added a game rule to turn it off.

1) How do you know how common the event is? Just gonna answer myself and say that you do not.
2) You do not get a female Councillor forced upon you, you get the opportunity to get one: You can say no.
 
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Excuse me, but can you read? I can refuse the councillor, but the AI can get it. And I've played pdox games, and usually events within the same category have a similiar mtth.

It's not even a MTTH event, so...

You did not say anything about the AI in the post I quoted, so I'm not sure what it is you think I read wrongly. And if the AI getting female Councillors breaks "your immersion", you seem far too bothered about the subject. Feel free to mod out the dreaded employable women though.
 
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So, basically, via in the game files as of 2.6, we'll have confirmation from Paradox on whether or not there is an afterlife and whether or not the dead can intercede on behalf of family members in secular affairs? Get ready, folks, the philosophers have been wrestling with this one for millennia :D

We felt it was time to clear things up a bit, there's been too much confusion for too long.
 
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Out of curiosity, what are the reasons why multiple cores/threads or a 64-bit architecture wouldn't be helpful? Threads asking about optimization and why CK2 (or games made on Clausewitz in general) don't have that kind of support keep popping up, and it would be nice if there was a developer response available somewhere with regards as to why those aren't there and/or what the specific obstacles in the way of implementing them are.
I was only commenting on the 64 bits part.
The game is already threaded and uses multiple cores. Improving on that usage isn't impossible but would pretty much require a full rewrite.

You would know the specific technical issues with your client better than I, but my understanding is that it would allow the client to use more than 4GB of memory, additional registers and 64-bit instructions without a prefix, and the faster 64-bit ABI. If it doesn’t actually need 4GB of memory and is already compiled to use 64-bit instructions, doubling the size of all pointers might not be worth it. But then, all your extended instructions need an extra prefix that increases the memory footprint of the program text too, don’t they? And it might even allow fewer instructions in the L1 cache at a time.
We don't use 4GB, we're not even close. We do, however, use a lot of pointers. Those would double in size, impacting the size of most of our data structures, and our cache usage. Performance might even get worse.

So let's get this straight, you're adding ahistorical women councillors, and your main argument for this is that there have been women which have been councillors and warriors? No, it doesn't work like that. Those women were exceptions. To the 5 links knotz dropped, that's only 5 women. They weren't commonplace. Paradox is adding events which make them commonplace. From what I gathered from the description, there's no game rule to turn this off. Darkrenown said "but you can reject them", but that doesn't stop the AI from doing that. No, it's not historical. If there were any, it would be extremely rare for a woman, if even possible to just be a "savvy merchant" like that in the medieval times. Women who DID become councillors put in enormous efforts to do so, and their path was full of troubles and intrigues. Before somebody goes and links me a woman who was a councillor, please read my post again and realize that those were exceptions, and don't make the extremely easy abilities for a person to get a female councillor that paradox wants to add reasonable
Norse can reform and become a major religion on par with Christianity and Islam: "that's cool." Paradox add ways to get more councilor women: "how dare they break historical reality like that?"

Does this mean patch 2.6 will be another major change?
Yes and no? We're not adding major gameplay changes on par with what happened at Conclave release, but on the other hand i feel that game rules is a huge game changer. You really get a very different game when you play with, say random aztec invasion + random mongol invasion + deadly diseases + unrestricted raiding than when you play with no aztecs or mongols, no adventurers and no diplomatic range for example.
 
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Have we seen most of the major features of the next expansion, or will those wait until the expansion is announced?

You've seen the bulk of the features now, at least the 'selling point' ones. There's a fair number of small changes and QoL improvements which we haven't shown yet.

It would be rather disappointing if this is all of the major features we'll get. The expansion still sounds fun, but I hope we get to see more stuff. Maybe something Renaissance-related?

<Secret DLC> is a fairy small DLC.
 
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