crusade targets

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Originally posted by ewright
......... Also keep in mind the Pope DID NOT necessarily have to approve a Crusade for it to be considered & numbered among the others by historians; examples are Emperor Frederick II's 6th Crusade .........

The Pope did initially approve the 5th Crusade in which Frederick took the cross. He kept putting it off and when he finally did go he turned around saying he was sick. He was then excommunicated by Gregory IX and later after he recovered (and married the Queen of Jerusalem) went on to the Holy Land as an excommunicate. Gregory IX was ticked off that an excommunicate was leading a crusade and asked the clergy in the Levant to not give Frederich II support. Seeing he had no real support (Templars and Hospitalers shunned him because they answered only to the Pope) he negotiated with Al-Kamil for the freedom of the city of Jerusalem. So this was the only numbered crusade which was not called by a pope.

 

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Yeah he called the 5th Crusade. He certainly did not call the 6th, in fact like you say, he did everything he could to turn it back.

And even before that, the Pope sanctioned the 4th Crusade, but definitely turned against it when it attacked Dalmatia for Venice, forbid it to take Constantinople, and threatened its leaders with excommunication when they did it anyway. So yes, he wanted the 4th Crusade, assuming it went to Outremer, but he certainly disavowed the whole mess and turned decidedly against it when it awry in the Adriatic, even before the assault on Constantinople. But did the Crusaders turn back and leave it alone? No. And do we still call it the 4th Crusade. Yes. He wanted "a" crusade in 1202...but he didnt want the 4th!

 

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How abou making excommition into a huge penalty if u r on Crusading like, Fred II. Even Fourth Crusade got no more support after the fall of Zara. Being excommitted maybe should be slighly lessen damaged for those stay at home for Crusade is work of Jesus thus if uy got excommited on one, who would even look at ur face?

 

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Originally posted by ewright
......... But did the Crusaders turn back and leave it alone? No. And do we still call it the 4th Crusade. Yes. He wanted "a" crusade in 1202...but he didnt want the 4th!

If I would have been numbering them the 4th Crusade would have been counted because it was a large crusading effort undertaken at the request of the Pope. The 6th? well not so much. Some books I have read do not count Frederich II trip to the Holy Land as a crusade, but most books do. So I go along wth the majority, because who am I to say differently.

 

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Yeah, youre totally right Sonny. If judged by the criteria the others meet, even the 4th, the 6th shouldnt be counted as one of the "numbered" crusades. In fact, the only real fighting took place between Christians...I'll bet the Muslims just loved that...