crusade, jihad and GHW should use the travel system

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cochus1

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:confused: I don't disagree, but like I say, sometimes we've got to pick our battles.

The dream would be the perfect historic video game with infinite time to lavish on every feature. Not only do we not have that, but per some of our DDs late last-year, we're currently trying to get our release cadence up a bit. That means we're wanting to try to stick to a more regular (and shorter) schedule, which in turn means making choices like this from time to time.

Sometime we'll have to compartmentalise a bit in order to get things finished within a reasonable timeframe, sometimes we'll have to leave things for later that we might prefer to do now. The alternative is letting our DLC pace either remain static or else, worst case scenario, slow down, and neither of those are tenable.
As developer, I think it's better to incorporate the systems gradually in the game than build a huge feature that requires a full year to develop and then see that it doesn't work or players dont like it.
If you are planning to revising the topic later, that's ok for me
 
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Trinita132

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:confused: I don't disagree, but like I say, sometimes we've got to pick our battles.

The dream would be the perfect historic video game with infinite time to lavish on every feature. Not only do we not have that, but per some of our DDs late last-year, we're currently trying to get our release cadence up a bit. That means we're wanting to try to stick to a more regular (and shorter) schedule, which in turn means making choices like this from time to time.

Sometime we'll have to compartmentalise a bit in order to get things finished within a reasonable timeframe, sometimes we'll have to leave things for later that we might prefer to do now. The alternative is letting our DLC pace either remain static or else, worst case scenario, slow down, and neither of those are tenable.
When you go to war, you don't get regency? :oops:

The regency trigger is only related to activities / travels and not to location or to joining an army?

It's not possible to add a condition : if in army or travelling or doing activity then trigger regency?

Or maybe a condition : If not at home trigger regency?
 

Wokeg

CK3 Experienced Game Designer
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May 14, 2018
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When you go to war, you don't get regency? :oops:

The regency trigger is only related to activities / travels and not to location or to joining an army?

It's not possible to add a condition : if in army or travelling or doing activity then trigger regency?

Or maybe a condition : If not at home trigger regency?
Oh you certainly can, but then we get into the weeds of functionality.

Does going to war put you into an entrenched regency or not? If it does, then does your regent invalidate if they go to war? If it doesn't, and we don't have support for travelling to/from armies, then what's to stop you teleporting back to end the regency then re-teleporting back out again to command your army? If it does and we do have that support, then Code & UX need to make that work, and how do we then tutorialise that to the player, which tooltips do we need to overhaul to tell you this is happening and when, how does the AI deal with this? What're the performance implications of having characters travel to a moving target where we need to recalculate both the position of the moving travel party and the position of the moving army constantly and also this is happening in dozens of places across the map at the same time? How does the player set a route if the army changes completely and the route needs to be adjusted so that now the player walks through St. Deathingtons (known for its extraordinarily high wolf population and curious preponderence for a sort of venereal version of the Black Death) even though the player's initial route was trying explicitly to avoid that? What happens if the army is destroyed along the way? What happens if the army literally moves faster than the travelling commander can but only gets the buff that lets it do that after you set the commander off, do we just invalidate the commander and send them home, and if so, how do we alert the player (and train the AI) that something dun goofed? What do we do if the commander reaches the army mid-battle given that AFAIK, you currently can't change the commander mid-battle - does the player just have to watch their commander sit by the sidelines whilst their troops lose till he can quietly present a letter taking command, or do we fix that and unravel whether or not the entire battle system explodes if you enable something that was never meant to happen and which the system may have been built to assume was impossible?

Most pressingly, which other features do we want to cut (and we'd have to cut some stuff hard) in order to provide the resources to support this?

... just for examples of a few problems that occur (and some of which did occur during testing) off the top of my head. There's a lot, lot more, and on top of that usually architectural/technical reasons why we couldn't always use the obvious solution, or why an obvious solution might not work or might be bad in some other way, and sometimes solutions cause other problems. Sadly it's just not easy to integrate two complex systems with each other and make it work and run decently and also retain moddability and make a bunch of other stuff at the same time, especially when one of the complex systems is as old as a lot of the war code is (which makes it harder to work with).

These are all, ultimately, solveable problems. But solveable problems that still need UX time, that need Art time, that need, and I cannot overstate this enough, oodles of Code time, and which'd need a decent chonk of Design time. We tried some of this, quite extensively even, and a simple solution that doesn't also suck in a million ways just isn't possible. Which kills me to say because it is something I want and argued for at length, but it just wasn't worth the costs induced.

At least, for now.
 
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UMACI

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:confused: I don't disagree, but like I say, sometimes we've got to pick our battles.

The dream would be the perfect historic video game with infinite time to lavish on every feature. Not only do we not have that, but per some of our DDs late last-year, we're currently trying to get our release cadence up a bit. That means we're wanting to try to stick to a more regular (and shorter) schedule, which in turn means making choices like this from time to time.

Sometime we'll have to compartmentalise a bit in order to get things finished within a reasonable timeframe, sometimes we'll have to leave things for later that we might prefer to do now. The alternative is letting our DLC pace either remain static or else, worst case scenario, slow down, and neither of those are tenable.
Are there at least some plans to implement the system for commander appointments? Currently apointed commanders can teleport half way across the map as needed.
Though this would come with it's own seperate problem, an army would have several people who could take command but in CK3 there's only a single commander. Perhaps there could be a commander pool for armies depending on the number of men, say 2 commanders for base and 1 additional commander for every 1000 men, appointed while the army was being raised(they should still be able to "teleport"before the army starts marching for the first time) so in this way when you change the commander of Army A to one of the already appointed ones of that army, there would be no travel time but once you try to appoint Commander 1 who is in the commander pool of Army A to commaner pool of Army B, he would have to travel to Army B before getting appointed.
 

Cyhort

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The total war franchise is like “hold my beer, this will only take a second.”
XD

Okay, fair point, but I wouldn't consider the Total War series grand strategy. It's more of an RTS with "strategy elements", in the same way that an FPS like Borderlands has "RPG elements" but is still, at it's heart, way more of a shooter than an RPG.
 
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PDXOxycoon

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they actually have a macro over on the CK3 Modding Coop Discord for listing all the things you can't do with it.
To quote the exact macro:
Coop Modding Discord said:
- We can't damage an army
- We can't destroy an army
- We can't add more troops to an existing army
- We can't add supply to an army directly
- We can't directly apply attrition to an army
- We can't actually raise or disband an army
- We can't forcefully win or lose a battle (win and lose effects are broken)
Thinking of working with Warfare or Armies? You probably can't.

These are all, ultimately, solveable problems. But solveable problems that still need UX time, that need Art time, that need, and I cannot overstate this enough, oodles of Code time, and which'd need a decent chonk of Design time. We tried some of this, quite extensively even, and a simple solution that doesn't also suck in a million ways just isn't possible. Which kills me to say because it is something I want and argued for at length, but it just wasn't worth the costs induced.

At least, for now.
I love my complicated systems, but at one point we need to be able to say: "this is good enough for our purposes now". The ever old addage: "perfect is the enemy of good enough" is ever true when developing games. Sometimes we need to simplify systems from the intent, because following the desired design is too costly in developer hours, performance and/or both.

Wokeg's block of "what ifs" is something we always have to ask ourselves whenever we make deep, interconnecting systems. Is it fun and interesting to make such systems? Absolutely! It is my favourite thing as a programmer! But when we need to keep checking for all the edge cases that can, and will happen, we must ask the question: "is this complexity worth it? Can we simplify this somehow and still get it roughly to where we want it to be?"

As an example where we needed to simplify things for the sake of performance:
There is also a limit to how many characters can attend a given activity, this depends on the activity type with larger festivities like Weddings and Tournaments allowing more people than a Hunt, if you go above the cap then guests invited with a less important role will be filtered out first.
While you can also argue that such limits make sense, you can only bring so many people to a Hunt, but say the ambition of Tournaments we would want to be able to support anyone and everyone, we ended up setting limits on how many can actually attend the activity for performance reasons.

During development, while there was nothing capping the number of guests, having the Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire host a Tournament would noticeably slow the daily ticks for its duration. We explored several avenues to prevent this, but most of the slowdown came from the number of pathfinders going on; having more than 800 characters trying to pathfind at the same time is an expensive operation, and then running our script system over all of these characters with triggers, effects and the like would also lead to a noticeable slowdown. Our script system is extremely flexible, but it is also much slower than running it purely in code.

I'd love to see Tournaments with more than a thousand attending characters, but the performance overhead just was too much, and it didn't play as well as I had hoped due to it.

We'll see in the future, but keep it stupid simple is ever a principle to abide by. We can always expand it as we move on, but it's harder to justify removing and reducing once it's out there.
 
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Riaman98

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My head canon for now is when we are leading the army the ruler has the raw power of the kingdom (Military) alongside the vassals as knight, hence regency is not needed. Regent can't do jackshit to challenge their liege.
 
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