Crossfires, a French AAR for HoI2 Doomsday

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Makes sense. I am not offended in any way by this, in fact if I had to choose between Nazi Germany and say Britain I'd choose Britian in an instant.

Quoted for truth, that. Better a Welsh rarebit with lukewarm beer in good company than a feast with Heydrich and Co.

 

[El Pip]

Quoted for truth, that. Better a Welsh rarebit with lukewarm beer in good company than a feast with Heydrich and Co.

Lukewarm (or room temperature as some call it) is the correct temperature for ale. For lager of course it's a terrible temperature - that should be ice cold, but it's bang on for ale.

Anyway I'd agree that while all intelligence services had their success' and failures, sometimes at the same time, the Abwher really had a very bad war overall. Although whether that was due to their incompetence/arrogance/bad luck or British MI5 success probably depends upon your viewpoint.

 

[HJ Tulp]

No offense taken !

The take on the Abwehr as amateurish is the British SIS' IIRC, which always struck me because when you defeat a foe, you don't go saying "ah, they were just a bunch of amateurs", you generally want to say "we were up against the sharpest and most devious operators in the whole world, and we came up ahead in a harrowing duel of minds". So I read up a little more on the Abwehr, and about Canaris, and what I read brought me to the conclusion that by and large the SIS had been right. Even German officers reached that conclusion when the Abwehr failed to see the Allies' declaration of war over Danzig, failed to evaluate the size of the Soviet Army, failed to predict Torch and the subsequent invasion of Italy, and were led along to believe D-DAY would happen in Pas-de-Calais by agents who were turned by the SIS without the Abwehr ever suspecting anything.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Abwehr's task was easy, far from it, and they also had succesful operations, but in the end they got blindsided more often than they managed to score success. While some of the Abwehr's failures can be blamed on outside factors and influences, in some cases it was a direct consequences of lack of professionnalism. For example they had one agent who regularly sent reports about Allied forces in Great Britain. Problem is, the agent never ever set foot on the British islands, and invented the reports just by using a Baedeker travel guide and some newspaper clips. The OKW had its doubts about the intel, but the Abwehr kept backing their man, never realizing he had long been turned by the SIS.

I want to use that aspect of the Abwehr operations, because it is historically accurate from what I could gather AND because airtight operations executed by super-competent operatives are less interesting, in a story-telling perspective, than operations that can actually blow up in the Abwehr's face. The Abwehr is a dangerous foe. And it is a clever one. What I am trying to describe here is an Abwehr that is at the same time able to mount daring, cunning operations, but can also make blunders. It's like the CIA, or the DGSE, or the British Intelligence Service. Are they competent ? Sure they are ! But they also screwed up and blew it big-time in Cuba or in Auckland, or with Philby.

Was the Abwher also responsible for the 'Englandspiel' or was that some other service?

 

[unmerged(61296)]

Was the Abwher also responsible for the 'Englandspiel' or was that some other service?

You mean sending spies to England ? That was them IIRC. They had dibs on military intel.

 

[HJ Tulp]

You mean sending spies to England ? That was them IIRC. They had dibs on military intel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englandspiel

It's interesting to read what you say about the Abwehr because I've always learned (from a Dutch point of view) that the Abwehr was very proffesional though I think that my Dutch sources have very much been influenced by the Englandspiel

 

[Eams]

Were any of the mistakes made by the Abwehr intentional or the results of either half-hearted efforts or the attempts to deceive everyone, including the Nazi government?

 

[El Pip]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englandspiel

It's interesting to read what you say about the Abwehr because I've always learned (from a Dutch point of view) that the Abwehr was very proffesional though I think that my Dutch sources have very much been influenced by the Englandspiel

I think that very much demonstrates the point, the same service could have success and failure at the same time.

One explanation is just that it's very hard running overseas spy networks, regardless of your nationality. That said comparing Englandspiel to MI5s 'Doublecross' operation shows the Abwehr really didn't use the situation as well as they could of. Of course that assumes Englandspiel wasn't a deliberate operation by the British to insert false intelligence into the German high command.

 

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With 7 pages and counting, the next update is 70% done. Expect to see it online this week-end.

Thanks for your patience !

 

[Faeelin]

Anyway I'd agree that while all intelligence services had their success' and failures, sometimes at the same time, the Abwher really had a very bad war overall. Although whether that was due to their incompetence/arrogance/bad luck or British MI5 success probably depends upon your viewpoint.

Well, they had trouble with the Soviets too; they were completely outclassed at every level by 1942.

Urrah!

 

[Petrarca]

Joubert

I'm rather ashamed to be asking after reading so long, but it only occurred to me when I saw the name out of context elsewhere: any relation to Three Days of the Condor?

 

[Eams]

Great, a new update will be up when I return from the traditional feasting on alcohol and bugs!

Regarding what we discussed earlier: Benjamin G. Hill, in-game general and Chief of Staff for Mexico, died in 1920. Is there any French necromancy that can beat that?

 

[unmerged(61296)]

I'm rather ashamed to be asking after reading so long, but it only occurred to me when I saw the name out of context elsewhere: any relation to Three Days of the Condor?

Ah, the Three Days of the Condor - great movie, haven't seen it in a while !

Actually, no, it's a much more obscure reference to a French radio show I liked when i was younger : "The Investigations of Chief-Inspector Joubert". I decided to give Chief-Inspector Joubert a youth.

 

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Regarding what we discussed earlier: Benjamin G. Hill, in-game general and Chief of Staff for Mexico, died in 1920. Is there any French necromancy that can beat that?

Wow, 1920 ? Now THAT's a serious contender for the envied title of Hearts of Iron Zombie Commander-in-Chief !

 

[trekaddict]

Wow, 1920 ? Now THAT's a serious contender for the envied title of Hearts of Iron Zombie Commander-in-Chief !

I've heard romours that there is supposed to be a minster/leader somwhere who died in 1908.

 

[Eams]

I've heard romours that there is supposed to be a minster/leader somwhere who died in 1908.

1908?
I've managed to find General J. Van Holt Nash, CSA (died 10/20/1921) and General William Birch Haldeman, CSA, (died 27/10/1924), but no one who died before WWI. So, who wants to filter through the alternate American states and all those Central Asian ones to find our answer to the holy Grail?

 

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are these people Old Guards? Maybe they were so unimaginative and stuck in their ways that they died in their chairs but their staff didnt notice and just kept ordering frontal assualts...

 

[Eams]

Yes, they are Old Guards. Unlike Patton, where people would notice the lack of insane rants and high-pitched obscenities that went along with those orders for frontal assaults.

 

[trekaddict]

Yes, they are Old Guards. Unlike Patton, where people would notice the lack of insane rants and high-pitched obscenities that went along with those orders for frontal assaults.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[unmerged(61296)]

Yes, they are Old Guards. Unlike Patton, where people would notice the lack of insane rants and high-pitched obscenities that went along with those orders for frontal assaults.

They use Old Spice instead of Right Guard. Old Guard, when you need 24/7 protection against stress, perspiration, and new army doctrines.

 

[Eams]

They use Old Spice instead of Right Guard. Old Guard, when you need 24/7 protection against stress, perspiration, and new army doctrines.

While I appreciate your sense of humour, you should be writing updates instead.
Trekaddict: The same goes for you, stop laughing and start writing!