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Garbon

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And all of this is exactly why I asked for discussion on this thread to end. :rolleyes: None of this is helpful in the least, in any way shape or form. This forum is about discussing modifications to EU2 and not whether we approve and individual's actions or requests, especially when that leads to defamation of the said individual's character (whether deserved or not).
 

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Originally posted by Garbon
And all of this is exactly why I asked for discussion on this thread to end. :rolleyes: None of this is helpful in the least, in any way shape or form. This forum is about discussing modifications to EU2 and not whether we approve and individual's actions or requests, especially when that leads to defamation of the said individual's character (whether deserved or not).

Well, we seem to have differing opinions on this. I don't think Crook deserves any degree of decent treatment, but I will be silent on the subject from now on if you wish so. Just let me ask why we should not make it public when we are forced to take things out of the mod? This has always been a community project, not the personal property of neither Crook nor the committee, and I see nothing wrong about discussing major decisions that obviously have a big impact publicly. Crook is NOT asking this from the commitee, he is asking it from the EEP as a whole. Making this type of decisions secretly to avoid bad comments on Crook is undemocratic.
 
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I believe it will be no big loss to remove his stuff, as I recall there was some really stupid events that had unbalanced event choices. Furthermore, the fact that he included his events in without posting on the forum means they were not discusses/reviewed/critiqued by the community. I think that says something about his character. Why does everyone else have to post their events for discussion, yet he can sneak his events in with absolutely no discussion?

I believe it would be best to respect his wishes and remove his events, so that they can be redone in the way they were supposed to have been.
 

TheLoneTaco

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this goes along with what i said before - if they need to be redone then GREAT redo them. however, if some of them are fine, leave them and give him credit for that. while i don't think he has much legal backing to force you to take out everything, i don't see why his name has to be stricken from the record while his events are still in the eep.

-Matt
 

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Originally posted by Twoflower
However there are the forum terms that everybody agrees to by posting in the forum. It is possible everywhere and perfectly legal to voluntarily give away your property and the right to it and by posting on the forum and accepting the copyright agreement you are actually doing that.

And while this may be the case in Sweden, it is complete and utter bullshit in America, where I'm from. This essentially amounts to an illegal, and entirely unenforceable EULA. Anything I post here, including my comments, remain *mine* - all mine, every single bit mine, and nothing belonging to Paradox. Copyright assignment can only happen expressly, not implicitly.

What I've done, by posting on this forum, is give Paradox the rights to rebroadcast my posts - ON THIS FORUM. They can claim anything they like - they can even demand I hand over my first-born if I post here - but their demands in this regard amount to a hill of beans.

If Paradox doesn't like this little fact, they have the *right* to ban me from the forum, forever. And to continue rebroadcasting my posts WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THIS FORUM.

But they could not, for instance, take events I post here and incorporate them into EU3 without my express consent. Under American law, and American court rulings, I could sue their sorry asses off if they did so.

Not that I would. But too many people assume that just because a company posts some sort of bullshit EULA then that EULA actually has the force of law, a binding legal contract. And in this case, the demand to hand over intellectual property rights for the 'privilege' of posting would never stand up to a legal challenge, at least not in the USA.

If Crook wants his stuff pulled, the smart thing to do is to pull it - and then replace anything you pull with your own copies of those events, that you write from scratch. His reasons, childish or not, are irrelevant to his wishes. That's *his* intellectual property, and if he's an American then under the DMCA he could bitch-slap you into next year if you don't comply.

But really, stealing his stuff is just plain rude in any event. It doesn't matter whether or not you like his reasons, it's still *his* property and he can do whatever he wants with it. Just pull it, and then replace anything that's critical with your own work.

If you want to avoid problems like this in the future, just GPL the EEP and include the GPL in every release. Then the author *can't* pull his work if he has a hissy fit later on. If you work under the GPL then you're covered.

Of course, that means that other folks can also post the EEP on their own sites, but the more places people can get it from the merrier, right?

Max
 

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Originally posted by maxpublic
And while this may be the case in Sweden, it is complete and utter bullshit in America, where I'm from. This essentially amounts to an illegal, and entirely unenforceable EULA. Anything I post here, including my comments, remain *mine* - all mine, every single bit mine, and nothing belonging to Paradox. Copyright assignment can only happen expressly, not implicitly.

What I've done, by posting on this forum, is give Paradox the rights to rebroadcast my posts - ON THIS FORUM. They can claim anything they like - they can even demand I hand over my first-born if I post here - but their demands in this regard amount to a hill of beans.

If Paradox doesn't like this little fact, they have the *right* to ban me from the forum, forever. And to continue rebroadcasting my posts WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THIS FORUM.

But they could not, for instance, take events I post here and incorporate them into EU3 without my express consent. Under American law, and American court rulings, I could sue their sorry asses off if they did so.

Not that I would. But too many people assume that just because a company posts some sort of bullshit EULA then that EULA actually has the force of law, a binding legal contract. And in this case, the demand to hand over intellectual property rights for the 'privilege' of posting would never stand up to a legal challenge, at least not in the USA.

If Crook wants his stuff pulled, the smart thing to do is to pull it - and then replace anything you pull with your own copies of those events, that you write from scratch. His reasons, childish or not, are irrelevant to his wishes. That's *his* intellectual property, and if he's an American then under the DMCA he could bitch-slap you into next year if you don't comply.

But really, stealing his stuff is just plain rude in any event. It doesn't matter whether or not you like his reasons, it's still *his* property and he can do whatever he wants with it. Just pull it, and then replace anything that's critical with your own work.

If you want to avoid problems like this in the future, just GPL the EEP and include the GPL in every release. Then the author *can't* pull his work if he has a hissy fit later on. If you work under the GPL then you're covered.

Of course, that means that other folks can also post the EEP on their own sites, but the more places people can get it from the merrier, right?

Max

But this site is located in Sweden: NOT the US. American law does not apply in this case. By posting on this board you have agreed to the rules set forth by paradox: Including that any material you post here is the property of Paradox.

You *expressly* withdraws your right to the material you post here when you post here.
 

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Originally posted by Arilou
But this site is located in Sweden: NOT the US. American law does not apply in this case. By posting on this board you have agreed to the rules set forth by paradox: Including that any material you post here is the property of Paradox.

You *expressly* withdraws your right to the material you post here when you post here.

Given that the EULA from Paradox is not in conflict with Swedish law, of course.

Anyway, I think that if Crook really wants his events to be removed, then u should show that you are a bigger man than him - and comply to his wishes. Remove everything he made and make him forgotten. Does the EEP community really want such behaviour associated with their project? If by any change some of the events he made are really good and hard to replace, try asking the AGC if they have events covering the same. I'm sure they won't refuse their coming 'bride' some help and assistance.;)
 
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Originally posted by Arilou
But this site is located in Sweden: NOT the US. American law does not apply in this case. By posting on this board you have agreed to the rules set forth by paradox: Including that any material you post here is the property of Paradox.

You *expressly* withdraws your right to the material you post here when you post here.

This is correct. As I understand it, websites must abide by the laws of the country hosting the site.
 
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Originally posted by Hive
Given that the EULA from Paradox is not in conflict with Swedish law, of course.

Anyway, I think that if Crook really wants his events to be removed, then u should show that you are a bigger man than him - and comply to his wishes. Remove everything he made and make him forgotten. Does the EEP community really want such behaviour associated with their project? If by any change some of the events he made are really good and hard to replace, try asking the AGC if they have events covering the same. I'm sure they won't refuse their coming 'bride' some help and assistance.;)

As the AGC contains little or not Crook material (Alot is by MkJ) I'm sure replacements can be found for anything removed, and whatever else can be redone.
 

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Originally posted by Barbalele
Or at least just replace the text, i'm sure using commands or tools is not intelectual property, but text could be a problem in this view.

Which reminds me: I'm working on my own mod, in which I have used text from Wikipedia - The Free Encyclopedia. Since the word 'free' is an important part of the name, I figured that wouldn't be a problem. But now, after reading about all this trouble, I would like to be sure that I'm not violating anything.

Does anyone know if I can use text from Wikipedia w/o breaking any copyright laws?
 
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Originally posted by Hive
Which reminds me: I'm working on my own mod, in which I have used text from Wikipedia - The Free Encyclopedia. Since the word 'free' is an important part of the name, I figured that wouldn't be a problem. But now, after reading about all this trouble, I would like to be sure that I'm not violating anything.

Does anyone know if I can use text from Wikipedia w/o breaking any copyright laws?

You have to include a copy of the GPL.
 

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Originally posted by Twoflower
Well, we seem to have differing opinions on this. I don't think Crook deserves any degree of decent treatment, but I will be silent on the subject from now on if you wish so. Just let me ask why we should not make it public when we are forced to take things out of the mod? This has always been a community project, not the personal property of neither Crook nor the committee, and I see nothing wrong about discussing major decisions that obviously have a big impact publicly. Crook is NOT asking this from the commitee, he is asking it from the EEP as a whole. Making this type of decisions secretly to avoid bad comments on Crook is undemocratic.

As I said before, we should make things public when the mod changes, however, an announcement does need to be followed by name calling and other comments. The only useful post in this entire thread is mnor's first one.
 

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Originally posted by Garbon
As I said before, we should make things public when the mod changes, however, an announcement does need to be followed by name calling and other comments. The only useful post in this entire thread is mnor's first one.

What a few people are saying is that this is a public mod and they should have input into whether it is going to be changed or not, instead of being informed after it is already changed.
 
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Originally posted by Hive
Which is....???:confused:

Sorry, I was wrong. Wikipedia is covered under the GNU Free Document License. I would read the license and see what you can do with the text, and abiding by it is the decent thing to do.

By the way, perhaps we should place all future events under the GFDL so something like this never happens again. :)
 

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If Crook's events are to be removed, could a list of the removed events, and the files they were in, please be posted on the forum? That way casual EEP players could make a backup of the files that have Crook events in them, and copy them over the "Crookless" files right after they have installed EEP 1.4.1. Using this method, Crook's wishes are honoured, but everyone still has his events provided that they previously downloaded EEP 1.4.
 

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Originally posted by Garbon
As I said before, we should make things public when the mod changes, however, an announcement does need to be followed by name calling and other comments. The only useful post in this entire thread is mnor's first one.
oh c'mon garbon, utility is rather difficult to define & i think you're letting yourself drift a little by saying that everyone else was being unuseful. people are understandably upset by the turn of events, but i agree w/ you that there are very practical reasons not to let public speculation/commentary get out of hand until you've reached some sort of understanding w/ crook.

perhaps another plea w/ folks that they discuss this via private emails w/ you & other in-the-know fellows instead of publicly wd be more what you're asking for?
 

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Originally posted by Arilou
But this site is located in Sweden: NOT the US. American law does not apply in this case. By posting on this board you have agreed to the rules set forth by paradox: Including that any material you post here is the property of Paradox.

You *expressly* withdraws your right to the material you post here when you post here.

It doesn't matter a whit if the site is located in Sweden or not. In fact, it doesn't matter a damn what local Swedish law is.

Why? Because Sweden is a signatory to an international treaty on copyright law. So long as Sweden intends to abide by that treaty, then Sweden is compelled to follow the established international law which, not surprisingly, is an almost exact duplicate of American copyright law.

And that means that if some yahoo in Sweden were to 'claim' my intellectual property as his own simply because I posted on his web site (regardless of the EULA, since copyright assignment must be EXPLICIT and not IMPLICIT) he would be SOL. Wouldn't matter what the Swedish law was; because I'm an American the only law that applies is the international law, which, like I said, is virtually a carbon copy of American law.

Paradox's EULA may or may not apply in Sweden - I wouldn't know, nor care. But it's invalid on its face in terms of international law. It's as ridiculous as saying that because I posted a chapter of my latest book on the web site, Paradox now owns that chapter of the book. That assertion would be laughed out of court in a heartbeat - at least outside of Sweden. Although I'd guess that the Swedes are neither insane nor fools, so I'd put good money down that the law isn't any different in Sweden either.

But with regards to Crook - unless he's a Swede, appropriating his intellectual property against his will is illegal. It doesn't matter what you think of Crook; your opinion concerning the man's character is utterly irrelevant when it comes to the law. It's *his* property and your thoughts on the matter don't alter that fact. So pull his property and replace any critical elements with your own stuff.

Violating someone else's copyright doesn't become acceptable just because you don't happen to like the person is question. Abide by his wishes not only because it's the only legal thing to do, but also because it's the right thing to do.

And in the future, GPL the EEP to avoid any future unpleasantness. Then you're covered and can thumb your nose at anyone who later demands that 'his' stuff be removed.

Max
 
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But Crook can have the copyright on his text, but can he has the copyright on commands and triggers too? I don't think he can have this copyright either. Cause Paradox has the copyright on those tools, and crook was just using it with the permission of paradox. Can someone point out if this is right?
 
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