croatia

unmerged(6159) · Mar 18, 2003

I don't think Venice should lose manpower for having enemy pirates resettled. I do think that -1 manpower for Istria and Dalmatia if they are owned by HAB/CRO/HUN makes sense.

The monarch values are the same for BOH, HAB, HUN, SPA. They aren't the same for SIC, NAP. They don't exisit for MLO, LUX, SAR etc.

So it isn't entirely consistent. I think they ought to be the same, but Paradox is very inconsistent in this case.

unmerged(6159) · Mar 18, 2003

I found a site that seems to be in Croatian listing the kings. So I've changed the names. I'm amazed that there is a "Ladislav" and a "Vladislav". I thought that was the same name! I can't imagine how their English translations could be different!

Previous post edited with presumed Croatian names.

unmerged(6159) · Mar 19, 2003

Updates Uskok events

Most suggestion incorporated. Addded one event to penalize Venice if it doesn't go to war. Exempted AI. Protestant Aid trigger changed

Code:

[COLOR=skyblue]
event = {
          id = 1861816
          trigger = {
			exists = TUR
			NOT = { 
				OR ={
					vassal   = { country =HAB country = VEN } 
					vassal   = { country =VEN country = HAB } 
				}
			}
			neighbour = HAB #needed?
			OR = {
				owned = { province = 365 data = HAB }
				owned = { province = 366 data = HAB }
				owned = { province = 367 data = HAB }
				owned = { province = 368 data = HAB }
				owned = { province = 369 data = HAB }
			}	
			NOT = {event = 1861821}#HUN version
			NOT = {event = 1861819}#CRO version
		}
          random = no
          country = VEN
          name = "Uskok Piracy"
          desc = "The Uskoks were refugees from the fighting in the Balkans who 
settled in the town of Senj near Istria.  From this port they raided muslim, and frequently 
Venetian shipping.  The expense of protecting shipping became increasingly 
prohibitive for the Venetians, and in 1613 they raided Senj.  The Hapsburgs responded 
by raiding Venetian territory.  The Serenissima had to decide whether to escalate 
the crisis, or to step down and continue to provide escorts to the trade."
          style = 3
          date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1614 }
	  offset = 200
          deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1616 }

          action_a ={
                name = "Attack Austria"
		command = { type = relation   which = TUR value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation   which = HAB value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation   which = SAV value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = FRA value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = SPA value = -30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = NAP value = -30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = MAN value = -30 }
		command = { type = casusbelli   which = HAB value = 36 }
		command = { type = stability   value = -2 }
		command = { type = revolt   which = 368 } #Senj is in Istria Province
		command = { type = revolt   which = 368 }
		command = { type = setflag which = uskok_flag }
                      }
          action_b ={
                name = "Increase Escorts"
		command = { type = relation   which = TUR value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation   which = HAB value = 50 }
		command = { type = trade   value = -1000 }
		command = { type = treasury   value = -100 }  #Not enough to bankrupt them
#		command = { type = inflation   value = 5 }  #bad for trade
		command = { type = merchants   value = -2 } #can this go negative??
		command = { type = sleepevent   which = 1861817 }
		command = { type = clrflag which = uskok_flag }
                      }
          }

event = {
          id = 1861817
          trigger = {
		AND = {
			flag = uskok_flag
			OR = {
				AND = {#HAB sequence
					event = 1861816
					war   = { country = VEN country = HAB }
					}
				AND = {#CRO sequence
					event = 1861819
					war   = { country = VEN country = CRO }
					}
				AND = {#HUN sequence
					event = 1861821
					war   = { country = VEN country = HUN }
					}
			}
		  }
		}	
          random = no
          country = VEN
          name = "Protestant Aid"
          desc = "When Venice went to war over the Uskok pirates, protestant powers sent 
some aid, John of Nassua brought 5,000 soldiers and England sent 10 ships"
          style = 3
          date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1614 }
          deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1621 }

          action_a ={
                name = "Excellent"
		command = { type = relation   which = HOL value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = ENG value = 30 }
		command = { type = warships   which = -2 value = 10 }
		command = { type = INF   which = -2 value = 5000 }
                      }
          }


event = {
          id = 1861818
          trigger = {
			event = 1861817 #Venice declared war
			event = 1861816 #first event was vs HAB
			NOT = {war   = { country = VEN country = HAB } }#war is over
			OR = { 	
				owned   = { province = 368 data = VEN }	#Istria	
			 	owned   = { province = 365 data = VEN }	#Dalmatia	
				}
		}
          random = no
          country = HAB
          name = "The Uskok resettlement"
          desc = "The uskoks were refugees from the Balkans who settled in the town of 
Senj under the Hapsburgs, who used them to help protect the frontier.  Their piracy led to 
war between Austria and Venice.  As part of the peace the Uskoks were forcibly 
relocated away from the coast."
          style = 3
          date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1614 }
          deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1622 }

          action_a ={
                      name = "Resettle the uskoks"

			command = { type = provincemanpower   which = 366 value = 2 }#Croatia
			command = { type = relation   which = VEN value = 50 }
			command = { type = relation   which = TUR value = 30 }
			command = { type = manpower   value = -5 }
			command = { type = desertion   which = -1 value = 3000 }
			command = { type = naval  value = -500}
			command = { type = provincemanpower   which = 368 value = -1 }#Istria
                      }
          }


#retribution for not declaring war
event = {
          id = 1861823
          trigger = {
			NOT = {  #Venice did not declare war
				event = 1861817 #Protestant aid
			}
			flag = uskok_flag #
			OR = {
				event = 1861816
				event = 1861819
				event = 1861821
				}
			ai = no #does this make sense?
		}
          random = no
          country = VEN
          name = "Uskok piracy increases"
          desc = "Because Venice took no action against the uskok's sponsors, piracy 
increased in the Adriatic.  Venice's trade suffered."
          style = 3
          date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1621 }#end date of protestant aid
	    offset = 360		

          action_a ={
            name = "Dastardly Pirates!"
		command = { type = relation   which = TUR value = -200 }
		command = { type = trade   value = -1000 }
		command = { type = treasury   value = -100 }  #Not enough to bankrupt them
		command = { type = inflation   value = 5 }  #bad for trade-left in here
		command = { type = merchants   value = -2 } #can this go negative??
		command = { type = sleepevent   which = 1861817 }
		command = { type = clrflag which = uskok_flag } #maybe use it later no idea what for
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
                      }
          }


event = {
          id = 1861819
          trigger = {
			exists = TUR
			NOT = { 
				OR ={
					vassal   = { country =CRO country = VEN } 
					vassal   = { country =VEN country = CRO } 
				}
			}
			neighbour = CRO #needed?
			OR = {
				owned = { province = 365 data = CRO }
				owned = { province = 366 data = CRO }
				owned = { province = 367 data = CRO }
				owned = { province = 368 data = CRO }
				owned = { province = 369 data = CRO }
			}	
			NOT = {
				OR = {
					owned = { province = 365 data = HAB }
					owned = { province = 366 data = HAB }
					owned = { province = 367 data = HAB }
					owned = { province = 368 data = HAB }
					owned = { province = 369 data = HAB }
				}
			}	
			NOT = {event = 1861816}
			NOT = {event = 1861821}
		}
          random = no
          country = VEN
          name = "Uskok Piracy"
          desc = "The Uskoks were refugees from the fighting in the Balkans who 
settled in the town of Senj near Istria.  
From this port they 
raided muslim, and frequently Venetian shipping.  The expense of 
protecting shipping became increasingly prohibitive for the Venetians, 
and in 1613 they raided Senj.  Croatia responded by raiding Venetian territory.  
The Serenissima had to decide whether to escalate the crisis, or to step down 
and continue to provide escorts to the trade."
          style = 3
          date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1614 }
	  offset = 200
          deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1616 }

          action_a ={
                name = "Attack Croatia"
		command = { type = relation   which = TUR value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation   which = CRO value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation   which = SAV value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = FRA value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = SPA value = -30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = NAP value = -30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = MAN value = -30 }
		command = { type = casusbelli   which = CRO value = 36 }
		command = { type = stability   value = -2 }
		command = { type = revolt   which = 368 } #Senj is in Istria Province
		command = { type = revolt   which = 368 }
		command = { type = setflag which = uskok_flag }
                      }
          action_b ={
                name = "Increase Escorts"
		command = { type = relation   which = TUR value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation   which = CRO value = 50 }
		command = { type = trade   value = -1000 }
#		command = { type = treasury   value = -100 }  #Not enough to bankrupt them
		command = { type = inflation   value = 5 }  #bad for trade
		command = { type = merchants   value = -2 } #can this go negative??
		command = { type = sleepevent   which = 1861817 }
		command = { type = clrflag which = uskok_flag }
                      }
          }



event = {
          id = 1861820
          trigger = {
			event = 1861819 #CRO target of uskok event
			event = 1861817 #VEN declared war
			NOT = {war   = { country = VEN country = CRO } }
			OR = { 	
				owned   = { province = 368 data = VEN }	#Istria	
			 	owned   = { province = 365 data = VEN }	#Dalmatia	
				}
		}
          random = no
          country = CRO
          name = "The Uskok resettlement"
          desc = "The uskoks were refugees from the Balkans 
who settled in the town of 
Senj on the Dalmatian coast, from 
where they could protect the frontier.  
Their piracy led to war between Croatia and 
Venice.  As part of the peace the Uskoks were forcibly relocated away from the coast."
          style = 3
          date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1614 }
          deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1622 }

          action_a ={
                      name = "Resettle the uskoks"

			command = { type = provincemanpower   which = 366 value = 2 }#Croatia
			command = { type = relation   which = VEN value = 50 }
			command = { type = relation   which = TUR value = 30 }
			command = { type = manpower   value = -5 }
			command = { type = desertion   which = -1 value = 3000 }
			command = { type = naval  value = -500}
			command = { type = provincemanpower   which = 368 value = -1 }#Istria

                      }
          }

event = {
          id = 1861821
          trigger = {
			exists = TUR
			NOT = { exists = CRO }
			NOT = { 
				OR ={
					vassal   = { country =HUN country = VEN } 
					vassal   = { country =VEN country = HUN } 
				}
			}
			neighbour = HUN #needed?
			OR = {
				owned = { province = 365 data = HUN }
				owned = { province = 366 data = HUN }
				owned = { province = 367 data = HUN }
				owned = { province = 368 data = HUN }
				owned = { province = 369 data = HUN }
			}	
			NOT = {
				OR = {
					owned = { province = 365 data = HAB }
					owned = { province = 366 data = HAB }
					owned = { province = 367 data = HAB }
					owned = { province = 368 data = HAB }
					owned = { province = 369 data = HAB }
				}
			}	
			NOT = {event = 1861816}
			NOT = {event = 1861819}
		}
          random = no
          country = VEN
          name = "Uskok Piracy"
          desc = "The Uskoks were refugees from the fighting in the Balkans who 
settled in the town of Senj near Istria.  
From this port they raided muslim, and frequently Venetian shipping.  The expense of 
protecting shipping became increasingly prohibitive for the Venetians, 
and in 1613 they raided Senj.  Croatia responded by raiding Venetian territory.  
The Serenissima had to decide whether to escalate the crisis, or to step down 
and continue to provide escorts to the trade."
          style = 3
          date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1614 }
	  offset = 200
          deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1616 }

          action_a ={
                name = "Attack Croatia"
		command = { type = relation   which = TUR value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation   which = HUN value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation   which = SAV value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = FRA value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = SPA value = -30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = NAP value = -30 }
		command = { type = relation   which = MAN value = -30 }
		command = { type = casusbelli   which = CRO value = 36 }
		command = { type = stability   value = -2 }
		command = { type = revolt   which = 368 } #Senj is in Istria Province
		command = { type = revolt   which = 368 }
		command = { type = setflag which = uskok_flag }
                      }
          action_b ={
                name = "Increase Escorts"
		command = { type = relation   which = TUR value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation   which = HUN value = 50 }
		command = { type = trade   value = -1000 }
		command = { type = treasury   value = -100 }  #Not enough to bankrupt them
#		command = { type = inflation   value = 5 }  #bad for trade
		command = { type = merchants   value = -2 } #can this go negative??
		command = { type = sleepevent   which = 1861817 }
		command = { type = clrflag which = uskok_flag }
                      }
          }



event = {
          id = 1861822
          trigger = {
			event = 1861821 #CRO target of uskok event
			event = 1861817 #VEN declared war
			NOT = {war   = { country = VEN country = CRO } }
			OR = { 	
				owned   = { province = 368 data = VEN }	#Istria	
			 	owned   = { province = 365 data = VEN }	#Dalmatia	
				}
		}
          random = no
          country = HUN
          name = "The Uskok resettlement"
          desc = "The uskoks were refugees from the Balkans who settled in the town of 
Senj on the Dalmatian coast, from where they could protect the frontier.  Their piracy 
led to war between Croatia and Venice.  As part of the peace the Uskoks were 
forcibly relocated away from the coast."
          style = 3
          date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1614 }
          deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1622 }

          action_a ={
                      name = "Resettle the uskoks"

			command = { type = provincemanpower   which = 366 value = 2 }#Croatia
			command = { type = relation   which = VEN value = 50 }
			command = { type = relation   which = TUR value = 30 }
			command = { type = manpower   value = -5 }
			command = { type = desertion   which = -1 value = 3000 }
			command = { type = naval  value = -500}
			command = { type = provincemanpower   which = 368 value = -1 }#Istria
                      }
          }

[/COLOR]

I'm uncomfortable with the manpower loss in Istria because it's small to start with, and the point was the moving them away from the coast meant that they became more military minded and less naval minded. However, it is in there.

Norrefeldt · Mar 20, 2003

I like to exempt the stupid AI as well. As it is now Croatia only get the manpower bonus if they are owned by the country getting the resettlement event, right? Anyhow I think it is good enough as it is. I like the manpower loss in Istria, there are so many increases all over anyhow.
Some redundance in this trigger:

Code:

[COLOR=SKYBLUE]
flag = uskok_flag #
	OR = {
			event = 1861816
			event = 1861819
			event = 1861821
		}[/COLOR]

but that might be intended. I'm still a bit concerned about the option balance in the first event but that might be OK to force the player to the historical option. Btw, should the event trigger even if they are allies with very good relations? I'd be comfortable with a somewhat longer time span as well, the piracy problem was rather streched in time.
(Sorry, I really mess with details now, should shut up! These are good events as they are.)

unmerged(6159) · Mar 20, 2003

My concern with that redundnacy is the following scenario. Venice doesn't exist for the first event, but revolts before the lest one. (OK this is AI, so maybe it doesn't matter). Do we know that the flag is cleared if it has never been referenced?

My thinking was that the Hapsburgs (it wasn't really Austria, but Styria) had very little control over the uskoks. So I didn't think the alliance condition was needed.
If they are allied with good relations and Venice is AI not much will happen. Even with the CB they won't declare war, so there will be a loss in relations and little else. So I think it's OK.

Balance? I increased the stab hit, and removed the inflation. I'm trying!

Here's an idea. Jack up the cash loss in B and give them a fort. Or perhaps some galleys instead of a fort? What do you think?

Norrefeldt · Mar 20, 2003

Balance? I increased the stab hit, and removed the inflation. I'm trying!

I think it's still there, or have I missed something?

Do we know that the flag is cleared if it has never been referenced?

If the flag is never 'set' it is the same as 'clear', i.e. not in the flag line in the save.

unmerged(6159) · Mar 20, 2003

The inflation is commented out!

You SHOULD be right that the flag is clear if it's never used. I've been burned too many times in similar cases not to put that in there instinctively. Serves me right for using FORTRAN I suppose.

Norrefeldt · Mar 20, 2003

Sorry about the inflation!

I base my flag idea on the fact that there is a line for each nation listing the flags. I THINK that they get there when an event is happening.

unmerged(6159) · Mar 20, 2003

My concern is that if the first event never happens and you check to see if the flag is set. Has the memory been allocated? If so is the bit cleared? I don't know.

Kelvin · Mar 21, 2003

Just seen the resurrection of the thread...

I still don't agree with using Magyar/Habsburg monarchs for Croatia. They don't seem likely if Croatia remains independent from the start.

I'll see if I can find a complete list of Viceroys/Bans and I''l post it here with dates, so you can use them if you decide so.

Core provinces: Croatia (actually Slavonia), Krain (actually Croatia proper), Dalmatia, Istria and possibly Ragusa

Leaders can be toned down a bit, but most of them deserve their reputation, at least according to the 5-tome History of Croatia... The only thing that should be changed are death dates.

Also, could you please remove Venice's CB shield on Ragusa in all scenarios. Give them a permanent CB instead, representing a constant bickering between two trader republics.

If there is something specificyou need, feel free to ask and I'll try to dig it up.

unmerged(6159) · Mar 21, 2003

You have already posted the list of bans right?

And I still don't understand why you think Croatia should be treated differently from Bohemia or Naples in terms of monarchs. Both Magyars and Hapsburgs were in real life the Kings of Croatia.

I agree about the cores. I'd leave Ragusa out.

What would be very helpful for me is:

-Confirmation that I actually have all the Kings names in Croatian

-Real life death dates of all the leaders

-Prioritization of the leaders, i.e., who led the biggest armies etc. I'd love to give Croatia a half dozen leaders. I'm not so comfortable with the long list you've worked on. Also a thumbnail for the top dozen leaders or so. Otherwise I'll end up arbitrarily reducing everyone by one point across the board, and I am very ignorant.

Norrefeldt · Mar 22, 2003

It would nice if you could help. If you have the Croatian bans already, please post them. There might come a situation where we would like to use them. Isaac Brock's description of the monarchs stand for now, but perhaps in certain situations they could be exchanged. This can only happen if we have date on the the real bans.

Kelvin · Mar 22, 2003

This is a historical list of monarchs an viceroys for the period of EUII. some of the leaders are here also, the rest of the death dates I'll post tomorrow. I've used Croatian names.

Luxemburg - Habsburg - Korvin - Jagelovic

1387. - 1437. Zigmund Luksemburgovac
1438. - 1439. Albert Habsburgovac
1440. - 1444. Vladislav I. Jagelovic
1444. - 1457. Ladislav IV. (V.) Habsburgovac
1458. - 1490. Matijas I. Korvin-Hunyadi
1490. - 1516. Vladislav II. Jagelovic
1516. - 1526. Ludovik II. Jagelovic

Habsburg 1527.-1740.

1527. - 1564. Ferdinand I.
(nuzkralj Ivan Zapolja 1527. - 1540.)
1564. - 1576. Maksimilijan II.
1576. - 1608. Rudolf II.
1608. - 1619. Matija II.
1619. - 1637. Ferdinand II.
1637. - 1657. Ferdinand III.
1657. - 1705. Leopold I.
1705. - 1711. Josip I.
1711. - 1740. Karlo VI.

Habsburg - Lotharing
1740.-1918.
1740. - 1780. Marija Terezija
1780. - 1790. Josip II.
1790. - 1792. Leopold II.
1792. - 1835. Franjo I.
1835. - 1848. Ferdinand V.
1848. - 1916. Franjo Josip I.
1916. - 1918. Karlo IV.

Hrvatski banovi

1345. - 1346. Nikola Banffy od Lendave
1346. - 1349. Nikola Szechy
1350. Pavao Ugal
1351. - 1352. Stjepan Lackovic
1353. - 1356. Nikola Banffy Lendavski
1386. - 1391. Ivan od Palizne
1392. - 1393. Ivan knez Krcki
1397. - 1402. Nikola Gorjanski
1402. - 1404. Ladislav Grdevacki
1404. Pavao Bessenyo
1404. - 1406. Pavao Peez
1406. - 1408. Herman knez Celjski
1464. - 1465. Mirko Zapoljski
1466. - 1467. Ivan Tuz od Laka
1470. - 1472. Blaz Madjar Podmanicki
1472. - 1473. Damjan Horvat
1476. - 1477. Andrija Banffy Lendavski
1477. - 1481. Ladislav Egervarski
1493. Mirko Derencin
Ivan Bot od Bojne
1493. - 1495. Ladislav Kaniski
1495. - 1498. Herceg Ivan Korvin
1498. - 1499. Djuro Kaniski
1499. - 1504. Herceg Ivan Korvin
1505. Franjo Balassa od Gyarmata
1505. - 1507. Andrija Bot od Bojne
Marko Misljenovic
1508. - 1509. Ivan Ernust Cakovacki
Juraj Kaniski
1510. - 1511. Andrija Bot od Bojne
1512. - 1513. Mirko Perenyi
1513. - 1520. Petar Berislavic
1521. - 1524. Ivan Karlovic Krbavski
1524. - 1525. Ivan Tahi
1525. - 1531. Franjo Bacan
1530. - 1534. Simun Erdödy, biskup
1527. - 1531 Ivan Karlovic Krbavski
(1531. - 1533. Andrija Tuskanic, ban. namj.)
(1533. - 1535.Petar Keglevic Buzimski ban. namj.)
(1536. Nikola Gerendy ban. namj.)
1537. - 1539. Toma Nadasdy
1539. - 1542. Petar Keglevic Buzimski
1542. - 1556. Nikola grof Zrinski
1556. - 1567. Petar grof Erdödy
1567. - 1568. Juraj biskup Draskovic
1567. - 1572 Franjo knez Frankopan Slunjski
1574. - 1578. Gaspar Alapic Velikokalnicki
1578. - 1584. Krsto barun Ungnad
1584. - 1595. Toma grof Erdödy
1596. - 1607. Ivan barun Draskovic
1608. - 1615. Toma grof Erdödy
1615. - 1616. Benko Turoci Ludbreski
1616. - 1622. Nikola knez Frankopan
1622. - 1626. Juraj grof Zrinski
1627. - 1639. Sigmund grof Erdödy
1640. - 1646. Ivan grof Draskovic
1647. - 1664. Nikola grof Zrinski
1665. - 1670. Petar grof Zrinski
1670. - 1693. Nikola grof Erdödy
1693. - 1703. Adam grof Bacan
1704. - 1732. Ivan grof Palfy
1732. - 1733. Ivan grof Draskovic
1733. - 1741. Josip grof Eszterhazy
1742. - 1756. Karlo grof Bacan
1756. - 1783. Franjo grof Nadasdy
1783. - 1785. Franjo grof Eszterhazy
1785. - 1790. Franjo grof Balassa od Gyarmata
1790. - 1806. Ivan grof Erdödy
1806. - 1831. Ignjat grof Djulaj

grof = count
knez = (not sure yet)

Havard · Mar 22, 2003

Originally posted by Kelvin

knez = (not sure yet)

Isn't knez = "prince"?

Oh, and about the earlier flag discussion: From my testing it seems that if a flag is not set at all it's the same as set to no.

Kelvin · Mar 22, 2003

Well, knez would be the title of the ruler of Monaco, at least in Croatian.

Just had an idea: in case that Austria is gone (in EU) do you think that anyone would elect them for their monarch? Croatia elected them because they were strong and perceived them as someone who could help in the defence against Ottomans. That's why I used viceroys.

Kelvin · Mar 22, 2003

Havard, I think that would be right, because in Croatian Monaco is "knezevina" so the ruler is knez, and in English it's prince, just as you said.

Norrefeldt · Mar 22, 2003

I could favour such a solution for the monarchs as you suggested Kelvin. As this would mean a player controlled Croatia almost for sure, perhaps it wouldn't disturb too much. But I think some general policy need to be taken for nations sharing monarchs with other states. Are there to be any situations were a dynasty is removed?

unmerged(11796) · Apr 2, 2003

Okay, so there are events, and monrchs, and leaders, and stuff, but when will it be implemented in EEP? Does it need more testing, couse I volunteer.

P.S. and Istria, should definitely be slavonic.

unmerged(6159) · Apr 2, 2003

Don't worry Istria will be Slavonic.

Much of this should be in 1.4. (events and monarchs anyway) I still strongly favour using the Kings as monarchs.

However, we don't really have leaders. The leaders that Kelvin posted have 'lifespan' deathdates as opposed to real world death dates. In addition I feel there are too many of them and they are somewhat overpowered.

What would be a great contribution would be getting to the most important leaders (maybe a hald dozen) with actual startdates and deathdates, and maybe a description of why stats should be what they are.

Norrefeldt · Apr 2, 2003

It will all be in, and the kings will be used for 1.4. And you heard the man zBla, get us these leaders!

croatia

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

Porphyrogenitus

Field Marshal

Porphyrogenitus

Field Marshal

Porphyrogenitus

Field Marshal

Occam's Chainsaw

Field Marshal

Porphyrogenitus

Occam's Chainsaw

Dark Power

Occam's Chainsaw

Occam's Chainsaw

Porphyrogenitus

The Gigantic Squirrel

Field Marshal

Porphyrogenitus