Crivens! Rng Luck based anecdotes[Merged];

[Icewraith]

@Icewraith
First, I must point to my other thread about my mistake with SRM chances.


About your 1xAC20+++ 2xLL #xSRM#, if we assume a 1xAC20+++ 2xLL+++ 2xSRM4, it runs cold and has decent armor (with TEX/DHS), but why don't go for full LL range? you get similar performance from a 4xLL+++ 2xAC2++ as a base, allowing you to replace one or both AC2s for AC5s, depending on how aggressive you play.

For the Cyc-Z I do the same, LRMs, so JJs are not so beneficial and you barely generate any heat, even firing all the time, and can sometimes work as a finisher for very badly damaged foes.

The point you make about being hard to get a full stack of MLs++ and SRMs+++ is quite a good one. You only need two ++/+++ weapons for a fully armed dual AC20. And in addition you need TEX/DHS for a good performance ML/SRM Stalker.



@smurfopax
As before, first point to my mistake, to recognize I've been fooling myself XDDD

Now you comment, that otherwise I'd overstep due to lack of evidence or stats, makes much more sense to me. If you have two salvos available the Stalker is not so good as I thought but still is pretty good. And for CT core there is no comparison because the issue is mostly about lack of damage when dealing with full armored heavies and assaults. And besides that, more damage is super useful against turrets and vehicles. That's why LRM boats with +2 dmg are the best for that role, because they have indirect fire and very long range but also because they do a ton of damage.

I think the AC/20 LL Atlas started off as an experiment as an alternative to the 2x AC/20 build. Also I have terrible luck finding ++d ACs in the 2/5/10 range.

Have you run numbers on a 4LL++d/4SRM2++d Stalker? (Or KGC I suppose) Might be headshot king on no DR since you only need one of each weapon to connect, not sure how it scales with DR.

 

[Doctor Machete]

I think the AC/20 LL Atlas started off as an experiment as an alternative to the 2x AC/20 build. Also I have terrible luck finding ++d ACs in the 2/5/10 range.

Have you run numbers on a 4LL++d/4SRM2++d Stalker? (Or KGC I suppose) Might be headshot king on no DR since you only need one of each weapon to connect, not sure how it scales with DR.

You're right it can have a good chance to headcap and the armor & heat also would be quite similar, but there is a catch: for headcapping at 0% DR it gets a bit better but worse otherwise, and far worse at CT, which implies also would be even much worse at dealing with vehicles, due to them having less hit locations and total damage being crucial.

 

[ronhatch]

I've just discovered the joy of putting a master tactician in a fully ML Grasshopper with 6 MGs. Sensor lock on the way in, have lance mates soften up heavy enemies, then hop in and melt them with precision shot dissolving low armour. Half a dozen MGs guarantee crit city.

Generally speaking, I don't mount more than four MGs... I swap the last two for SLs. Still basically a guaranteed crit on anything exposed to internals, and it allows a little more power for punching through the armor in the first place.

Though admittedly the Grasshopper is a lot less likely to be able to spare the extra heat than the Firestarter.

 

[Jade_Rook]

Four MGs is my preference as well. That is the most I am willing to take with a single ton of ammo. It will probably run out, but by the time it does, I expect the fight to be over or close enough. With 6 MGs, I would expect to need two tons of ammo and that feels like a waste for machine guns.

 

[Icewraith]

You're right it can have a good chance to headcap and the armor & heat also would be quite similar, but there is a catch: for headcapping at 0% DR it gets a bit better but worse otherwise, and far worse at CT, which implies also would be even much worse at dealing with vehicles, due to them having less hit locations and total damage being crucial.

I don’t worry that much about vehicles, only a Demolisher can take an AC/20++d to the front and survive. If a turret or vehicle survives the LRM/20++d/LRM/20+++ barrage I have two mechs that can deal two 50-point hits at range.

Brainwave on why 1AC/20 2LL Atlas instead of 4LL, hit defense gyro. The other 2 energy slots are in the CT.

 

[Corraidhin]

Generally speaking, I don't mount more than four MGs... I swap the last two for SLs. Still basically a guaranteed crit on anything exposed to internals, and it allows a little more power for punching through the armor in the first place.

Though admittedly the Grasshopper is a lot less likely to be able to spare the extra heat than the Firestarter.

I love the extra dakka though

It's not that often I jump my GRH in that close with my playstyle, so when I do it's time for a metal storm. I'm also having my usual GRH pilot (master tactician + bulwark)

My usual lance is two master tactician + bulwark and two lancer + bulwark pilots.

'Mechs would be:
Dedicated firesupport (Was thunderbolt, just switched to Highlander 733, Lancer)

'Ship of the Line' 'mech (Standard Atlas 2AC10++, 3ML++d, 2SRM6+++, lancer),

Grasshopper (1LL++d, 6?ML++/+++, 6 MG, 1BadAttitude, Master Tactician)

Orion K (1AC5+++, 4?ML, 2SRM6++/+++, Master Tactician)

The MasterTac pilots scan on the way into range the apply brute force once scanning is irrelevant. The [Mod edit: no bad language even abbreviated] 'mech does exactly what it says on the tin, Fire Support can tag 3 target per round if needed to maintain aggro, and has enough useful close range weapons to chip in when needed to remove evasion or nibble armour.

Ed: Re-worded elements flagged as inappropriate, apologies if anyone was offended.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Had another example of the "wish I'd maxed out my salvage in my contract" moment last night.

Took on the "Siegebreaker" Flash-point last night.....& we managed to incapacitate the pilot of the Atlas......without destroying the Atlas itself (I think we took out just one of its legs & one of its torsos-the one carrying the AC20 ). So I had all 3 parts of the Atlas as potential salvage, but could only take two!!! Now I am 2/3rds of the way towards an Atlas!

 

[Corraidhin]

My first true nightmare scenario happened the other day in the Morgan Kell FP. In the final mission, lunar environment, I skirted the base to check for reinforcements on my chosen attack approach.

None there, so in I went, lo and behold the OpFor was an Atlas Grasshopper, Blackjack and Kintaro. And of course the reinforcements spawned directly behind me. In an environment with no cover.

I ended up angling my mechs as I moved and fired so the each side was taking hits from OpFor and reinforcements.

What saved me was using Kell in his Orion (2 PPCs and an LRM10 for a lunar assault? Seriously?), and his Lt in a battlemaster as ablative armour, but it was still close run. Both my mechs were in structure on multple sites, and Kel was in low 10s structure all over (bar one arm that was gone, but 'Tis but a scratch).

Ironically what probably saved me was all the reinforcements firing on the rear of my Atlas in the first round they could fire. Stripped all the armour and caused minimal structure damage, but otherwise wasted the whole lance's fire to ultimately no end.

And yes, it was that close when the last OpFor fell that a single round of additional fire on the front or sides of any other mech would have been disastrous.

Ed: And this is one aspect of why I'm enjoying this game so much. Everything is going swimmingly, but then a collision of chance hits you when you least expect it.

 

[Doctor Machete]

I don’t worry that much about vehicles, only a Demolisher can take an AC/20++d to the front and survive. If a turret or vehicle survives the LRM/20++d/LRM/20+++ barrage I have two mechs that can deal two 50-point hits at range.

Brainwave on why 1AC/20 2LL Atlas instead of 4LL, hit defense gyro. The other 2 energy slots are in the CT.

Several vehicles can take a single AC20 to the front, and at least a couple can take two AC20s if within cover. And don't forget that even if you attack from a side there is still a fair chance you'll hit the front. Of course dealing with vehicles is not a problem per se if you can utilize all your lance resources, but if all or most of your mechs have very good vehicle killing capability it will make many missions much easier and safer, because you will be able to kill all of them very fast and focus on the mechs afterwards instead of requiring more than one mech focusing damage on each vehicle. Depending on the lance composition sometimes you may easily kill up to four vehicles per turn if pressed.

For the 1xAC20 2xLL having a Gyro is not much of an asset if you have to go into opfor AC20 range, becoming more vulnerable and also losing one turn of firing, generating more heat and/or wasting morale efficiency if you decide to PS with only 2xLL when at ~400m. That's why in the other thread I suggest just going for 4xLL + something else, like AC5s/AC2s. Part of the issue here is the Atlas having important hardpoints in the CT, when a KC can have Gyro 4xLL and 1AC5 or 2xAC2, and even with the extra AC5/AC2 I'll take 4xLL or AC20+MLs+SRMs over 1xAC20 2xLL. In the first case it's less damage but I can deal it more safely and more often, and in the second not so often but then it's more decisive when I commit to AC20 range.

 

[ecnan2002]

A couple weeks ago I decided to try career mode after several games through the storyline. I've noticed a MAJOR difference in how the game works. Three missions out of four I have at least one pilot wounded by at least one random head hit. It's gotten to the point where I have anywhere up to four wounded pilots at a time - yeah, that makes payroll a pain. Also, accuracy in general seems to be WAY off. I understand that even with an 85% hit chance, that there is a 15% chance I will miss. BUT, I start questioning the random number generator when I miss 5 or 6 shots with that hit chance or better in almost every mission. Precision shots also seem to be suggestions to as to where not to shoot. And this is with pilots at 8 accuracy and at least 5 or 6 tactics.

I deleted one career thinking I'd just picked up a random streak of bad luck. The second, I've kept going longer, but have had the same issues. Anyone else noticed this, or am I just having a REALLY bad run of luck and should stay away from Vegas and airplanes?

 

[Groundpounder]

Depending on your difficulty settings you may be experiencing the pilot skill increase move at a slower rate then you did in the story mode. Having played career mode through twice I would say your experience with the headshots and injuries is also related to the fact you are running around with smaller mechs longer and are more likely to have injuries with all the damage taken.

Career mode is more of a grinders mode with small stories (in the flash points) that keep things interesting. The flash points are well worth the grind and the rewards are similar to the story mission rewards.

As far as the missed shots that is bad luck. . I have found if my accuracy skill is high and if the precision shot skill is not upgraded that the success of the called shot is itself disappointing. Once those two are at 8+ your called shots to the head can be above 18% consistently. That will make picking up new units much easier.

 

[ecnan2002]

Thanks for the response. I can certainly buy the bad luck on shots, but this head shot thing is really getting old. I guess I shouldn't bet on any ponies for a while That said, I've had the good luck in real life when guys have been trying for real to do harm to me, so I can take bad luck in a game.

 

[Jade_Rook]

Missing 6 shots at 85% in a mission is normal if you are firing 40+ shots per mission, which isn't going to be unusual.

For called shots, the first bonus is at tactic 6, and the full bonus is at Tactics 9 (I think, pretty sure it isn't 8). Gunnery helps you land shots, but doesn't influence the called shot location chance. Without at least the Improved Called Shot ability at Tactics 6, there isn't a huge benefit to called shots.

To avoid head hits, my best advice is to maintain range and evasion. Try to avoid situations where a full enemy lance gets to fire on the same mech so that you can keep some evasion. The harder you are to hit, the less likely they are to hit your head. Beyond that, it is just luck.

 

[Eelectrica]

I'm pretty sure the hospital food on my Argo is the best food ever. I have pilots come out of hospital, go one one mission and a stray missile hits for a couple of points damage and they're back in claiming a head shot.
I'm pretty sure they're line the cockpit with magnets to attract one or two stray missiles to get right back to hospital.

 

[unclecid]

I'm pretty sure the hospital food on my Argo is the best food ever. I have pilots come out of hospital, go one one mission and a stray missile hits for a couple of points damage and they're back in claiming a head shot.
I'm pretty sure they're line the cockpit with magnets to attract one or two stray missiles to get right back to hospital.

its not the food....i found out they are fed from the same galley as the rest of the ship......it the medical STAFF.....seems Darius hired some real lookers.

 

[commuterzombie]

An as-yet-untouched Orion to deal with, enough heat capacity to fire one AC20. Just like Terry Pratchett says, when the odds are a million to one it's basically guaranteed.

Ladies and gentlemen, the Beta Strike:

(this forum eats video time stamps, the Beta Strike is at 38:23).

 

[Havamal]

Scientists have calculated that the chances of something so patently absurd actually existing are millions to one.
But magicians have calculated that million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.

 

[Icewraith]

Missing 6 shots at 85% in a mission is normal if you are firing 40+ shots per mission, which isn't going to be unusual.

For called shots, the first bonus is at tactic 6, and the full bonus is at Tactics 9 (I think, pretty sure it isn't 8). Gunnery helps you land shots, but doesn't influence the called shot location chance. Without at least the Improved Called Shot ability at Tactics 6, there isn't a huge benefit to called shots.

To avoid head hits, my best advice is to maintain range and evasion. Try to avoid situations where a full enemy lance gets to fire on the same mech so that you can keep some evasion. The harder you are to hit, the less likely they are to hit your head. Beyond that, it is just luck.

Also note: head hits are slightly less likely from the side than the front. I try to keep the opfor at the edges of my firing arcs to minimize headshots and control which side of my mech is taking damage.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Excellent tactic! :bow:

By firing from the corners of your Firing Arc, you can dictate to a degree how an opponent can engage you. One of many considerations though is to take care when so exposing your back. Though sometimes you can tempt an opponent out from cover if he thinks he can get some Rear Torso shots in.

While maneuvering to attack your opponent is the mark of a fine BATTLETECH Tactician...

...compelling your opponent toward accepting greater risks, risks you can capitalize on, is the mark of an excellent BATTLETECH Tactician.

 

[Icewraith]

Excellent tactic! :bow:

By firing from the corners of your Firing Arc, you can dictate to a degree how an opponent can engage you. One of many considerations though is to take care when so exposing your back. Though sometimes you can tempt an opponent out from cover if he thinks he can get some Rear Torso shots in.

While maneuvering to attack your opponent is the mark of a fine BATTLETECH Tactician...

...compelling your opponent toward accepting greater risks, risks you can capitalize on, is the mark of an excellent BATTLETECH Tactician.

Rear arc isn’t usually a concern unless fighting lights or within punching range (or sudden reinforcements on your flank).

If you’re already trying to shield a damaged side, a moderately close opponent with decent move/jets can still get in your forward arc and (Murphy’s Law) land a hit on the one location you really wanted to protect.