Crisis events Can be to punishing

[Hawk_za]

Okay now I’m angry, I’m angry not because South Africa starts as a cripple as i expect that as its a minor nation but I’m angry because as soon as i went to war with my nation i got a crisis event 4 times that despite 4x 80 % chances to resolve did not resolve it it also tanked my political power into the negatives, and in addition i landed up with NO CIV FACTORIES AND NO WAY TO UNDO IT, as i got a national spirit called strikes where 50% consumer goods was added onto me.

DON'T as a gamer MAKE ME GRIND to try remove negatives for one and a half days and then undo all my work with ONE event that I

A) cant control
or
B) cant undo (as i cant build civ factories if i don't have any & as its the 1st of the month auto save locks you in tough luck start again )

that's just unfair and punishing to the point of putting me completely off the game.
Game designers please NOTE.
fun is had when you get punched and stand up NOT get punched body slammed get up only for the ref to tell you you lost as you had the wrong colour shorts on.

 

[blue_yonder]

You only have 23% stability, and the same is true in your game. I've never played South Africa, but do you not have 'improve worker conditions' and all the other ways to avoid catastrophe? You've spent a fortune on ministers and high command, and perhaps that PP could have been more wisely invested.

 

[Hawk_za]

You only have 23% stability, and the same is true in your game. I've never played South Africa, but do you not have 'improve worker conditions' and all the other ways to avoid catastrophe? You've spent a fortune on ministers and high command, and perhaps that PP could have been more wisely invested.

I had 69 % stability before the crisis happened the 23 % stability was due to the crisis and my negative pp was caused trying to resolve it 4 times with 80%chance of success failing each time

 

[Mousetick]

I had 69 % stability before the crisis happened

I could be wrong but I believe the strike crisis can only be triggered when the stability falls below 50%. Perhaps someone else will confirm.
Are you sure you were at 69% stability right before the crisis happened?
Did you declare or join a war by chance sometime before? Being at war applies a -30% stability penalty.

So something like that might have happened: 69% stability > war > 39% stability > crisis

 

[Hawk_za]

In addition it's bad enough playing as za were you get screwed fron the getgo with limited manpower and few civ factories no oil and 1 mill factory but to then be impaled by a UNAVOIDABLE crisis event as well.. Not cool France get a crisis event that allows it to improve its economy laws EARLY, why as a minor nation do a get an event that causes stability drop and a perminant 50% Increase in consumer goods that's not only unfair is madness.

No I know I was at 69 %as I took a 10 % knock to ban right wing party which took me down to 69% also I never declared war I was forced into it by Britton

 

[KDEstroy]

I had 69 % stability before the crisis happened the 23 % stability was due to the crisis and my negative pp was caused trying to resolve it 4 times with 80%chance of success failing each time

You probably had 69% stability before you went to war. Going to war lowers your stability by 30%. This crisis is triggered when you have less than 50% stability or war support. Also, I think it is highly unlikely you resolved in 4 times each with 80% chance of success. The chances of you not resolving the crisis is 0.2* 0.2* 0.2* 0.2 , or 0.16%. You should have had a 99.84% chance of resolving the crisis. Are you using any mods?

 

[Hawk_za]

You probably had 69% stability before you went to war. Going to war lowers your stability by 30%. This crisis is triggered when you have less than 50% stability or war support. Also, I think it is highly unlikely you resolved in 4 times each with 80% chance of success. The chances of you not resolving the crisis is 0.2* 0.2* 0.2* 0.2 , or 0.16%. You should have had a 99.84% chance of resolving the crisis. Are you using any mods?

No no mods but I may have whist trying to micro my war efforts misclicked... Why the hell does going to war automatically incur a penilty when we did not cause the war and you spend all that time prepping to go to war... From a game play mechanic that is insane here have a game about unavoidable war but hey if you forced to go to war boom punishment

 

[Mousetick]

No I know I was at 69 %as I took a 10 % knock to ban right wing party which took me down to 69% also I never declared war I was forced into it by Britton

You sound very angry and more interested in shouting angry words than trying to understand why you got the crisis or how to avoid it.

You were not 'forced' into a war by UK. In historical mode, ZA is part of the Allies. UK will ask you to join its war(s), but you can refuse if you want. ZA being at war is the result of your deliberate player action. It wasn't imposed on you.

 

[Hawk_za]

You sound very angry and more interested in shouting angry words than trying to understand why you got the crisis or how to avoid it.

You were not 'forced' into a war by UK. In historical mode, ZA is part of the Allies. UK will ask you to join its war(s), but you can refuse if you want. ZA being at war is the result of your deliberate player action. It wasn't imposed on you.

No I was given no choice as my autonomy was to low

 

[Hawk_za]

As for angry yes I am I spent a day and a half grinding against the odds for the game to force me to reset in a way I could not have forseen similarly to when I played italy Lined up everything for an invasion and then was screwed by a faction popping up that I was not at war with but was taking the territory I needed.

My point is this game and it's mecanichs can be unpradictble and not in a good way and this puts people off especially when said unpradictability cannot be undone or worked around. At this point unpradictability becomes punishment.

 

[KDEstroy]

As for angry yes I am I spent a day and a half grinding against the odds for the game to force me to reset in a way I could not have forseen similarly to when I played italy Lined up everything for an invasion and then was screwed by a faction popping up that I was not at war with but was taking the territory I needed.

My point is this game and it's mecanichs can be unpradictble and not in a good way and this puts people off especially when said unpradictability cannot be undone or worked around. At this point unpradictability becomes punishment.

South Africa starts with 71% stability. Taking a single improve worker's condition gives you more than 80% stability, which will ensure that you do not go under 50% stability when you go to war. Hoi4 is extremely predictable, but it is not very transparent, and that point can be improved. Players should get a warning like "You will suffer crisis events if your stability or war support drops below 50% " when they have low stability. However, every single time I got a crisis event, it was resolved after one decision, two if I got unlucky. Having a 99.84% chance to succeed and still failing to remove the strikes is insanely unlikely.

 

[Mousetick]

Yes I agree the penalties for the crisis are harsh, and can put you into a very deep hole if you're unlucky. Very hard to recover from if you're playing a minor.
At this point you might as well quit the game and restart a new one - with the new knowledge of how to avoid low stability crisis and how to better spend your PP to increase stability.

 

[Hawk_za]

Guess that will teach me to not have more saved games circa 1994, this lesson cost one and a half days of game play not a fun outcome and in fact it's off-putting for allot of people. One has to be stubborn to get good at this game and lessons like this one are very costly in time and frustration generated but hey one and a half days spent playing this game and now I know that in a game we're war is inevitable if I go to war i loose 30% stability which if not accounted for Wil cause strikes that will tank my pp and land me up with a 50% general strike modifier after its resolved.. Not cool at all now how was I supposed to predict this without this knowlage that I now posses.

 

[blue_yonder]

The chances of you not resolving the crisis is 0.2* 0.2* 0.2* 0.2 , or 0.16%. You should have had a 99.84% chance of resolving the crisis.

Anyone who plays competitive backgammon knows that the dice can throw up far, far more amazing odds than these.. but with that said, there's a 99.84 probability that the OP should take mousetick's advice and try to play better next time.

 

[Hawk_za]

Anyone who plays competitive backgammon knows that the dice can throw up far, far more amazing odds than these.. but with that said, there's a 99.84 probability that the OP should take mousetick's advice and try to play better next time.

Get good does not address the frustration generated by loosing a day and half of playing in fact it only adds to it. yes I don't deny that there are things I can do and will do differently from auto save changes to pp expenditure changes now that I know but that was my point getting to learn these lessons was and still is rage inducing and can be too punishing

 

[Mousetick]

Not cool at all now how was I supposed to predict this without this knowlage that I now posses.

You weren't supposed to predict it, and the game doesn't warn you or explain it to you. There are many others things that HOI 4 doesn't tell you and that you'll have to discover on your own. Depending on your viewpoint, that can be a severe shortcoming, or a motivation, or a challenge, or whatever.

If you have limited free time and/or don't enjoy the try/fail/learn/retry loop, I would recommend you play other games, otherwise you may get very upset and sad. Playing video games is supposed to be fun, for the most part.

 

[Hawk_za]

so you cant predict until you play it for the first time and go through it.

Now that I know how to avoid this cluster fuck I can retry but I have wasted 1.5 days playing a game and had to resort to forums to figure these insane (IF) scenarios out.

When you obfuscate information in the game you increase new player frustration ESPECIALLY when you keep changing the mechanics with dlc releases.

If you have limited free time and/or don't enjoy the try/fail/learn/retry loop, I would recommend you play other games, …. is not a good way to attract players to an already insurmountably difficult game to learn.

I loved this game when it first released but the more they add the more it the more they obfuscates and that is starting to put me off.

No that was no threat its just how I feel, I will, probably once I have cooled off re-try but still learning a game should never be this hard.

 

[Mousetick]

I didn't mean to scare you away or to discourage you. The crisis you encountered is the worst setback you could suffer in the game, I think. But it's not my role to 'attract' players to HOI 4. Only you can make the decision whether you want to play it or not. I can't make that decision for you.

Furthermore, I and others in this thread helped you by answering your questions and offering advice. But you keep dismissing us and ranting. That's not cool. Don't be surprised if we start ignoring you in return.

Let me give you one last recommendation, for what it's worth: if you are still in the early parts of the learning curve, you may want to turn off some or all DLCs. They only make the game more complicated and your life harder. Or at least turn off the DLC that makes ZA a puppet/dominion of UK (Together for Victory? I don't know).

 

[ecpgieicg]

The game can definitely be more transparent about the effects of Stability. From country to country, it can range from not mattering at all to low stability predicating a loss.

As for losing game time, I can sympathize with your frustration. Definitely make a good number of saves for each of your campaign. This time around, you lost time due to game mechanics. Next time, maybe it's due to a bug. You never know. Always make lots of saves to be safe.

 

[Hawk_za]

I didn't mean to scare you away or to discourage you. The crisis you encountered is the worst setback you could suffer in the game, I think. But it's not my role to 'attract' players to HOI 4. Only you can make the decision whether you want to play it or not. I can't make that decision for you.

Furthermore, I and others in this thread helped you by answering your questions and offering advice. But you keep dismissing us and ranting. That's not cool. Don't be surprised if we start ignoring you in return.

Let me give you one last recommendation, for what it's worth: if you are still in the early parts of the learning curve, you may want to turn off some or all DLCs. They only make the game more complicated and your life harder. Or at least turn off the DLC that makes ZA a puppet/dominion of UK (Together for Victory? I don't know).

I am sorry you feel i was ranting but i truly do feel that i was and still am airing genuine feedback on problems that this game has.
At no point did i dismiss you and am great-full for the help given. However I will continue to hold the view that this game needs allot more work to make it what it can be. I feel it my duty to give that feedback whether or not it is liked. i still feel that the permanent 50% modifier after i resolved the strike is harsh and yes while it can be avoided by not allowing the stability to drop below 50% i do feel there should either be a way to reverse it or just get rid of it why tank a country pp with events and give them permanent de-buffs alternatively maybe the devs should consider adding in a no stability loss for a subject country.

anyhow i will be restarting again as south Africa and trying to go dispersed industry as they need to change their production lines wayyyyy to often

Sorry for edit but i realy wish we could have 3 autosaves slots one for yearly one for monthly and one for weekly that would have saved me allot of frustration