Creating the Second World War from Victoria 2/(3?)

[Betawerewolf]

Back in the old days of PDX games, my dad and I always thought hoped the prospect of having CK I export over to EU 2 then Victoria and lastly HoI 2 would take place. After using the CK2 > EU4 export(and after using EU4>Vic2), I'm wondering how in the world would it be possible to convert Victoria 2 to HoI and get the outcome you normally would from Hearts of Iron. In Europe during Crusader Kings 2, you feel like a hardcore crusader fighting for control of Jerusalem and experience the "game of thrones" world that PDX created.

In EU 4, you have the last remnants of that crusader ambition morph into exploration and imperialistic ambitions that dominate the game for about two centuries. The latter half then introduces you to the world of revolution with many colonies fighting for freedom or your own people seeking their own. Victoria 2 then continues that idea of political ambitions that people have and expands it greatly but as well features the Great War. Hearts of Iron on the other hand is a very specific event in which Nazi Germany begins consuming neighbors and ignites then WW2 with a potential victory for each faction (Allies, Axis, Comintern). So what I'm asking is, how could modders replicate a WW2 feeling? We can get the feeling of imperialism, colonialism, exploration, and more from the previous titles but how do we get a clash of ideologies to occur?

Kaisereich is my favorite mod to date but it took a ton of effort in order to create this ahistorical universe that has very intricate details. For example, the game has minor events such as Ronald Reagan's death in the Pacific States of America and a possible assassination attempt against Huey Long in the USA.

I think that's one of the reasons that Paradox hasn't bothered developing a converter for Vic 2 to HoI 3. It's because it would be very boring to have no detailed world war unlike in the base HoI or in a well made mod.

So how would a converter to these games be made. The first challenge above would be thematic ideas from WW2, the most prevalent being extremist movements rising to power after the Great War and the Great Depression. The only way you could incorporate this into HoI 4 would be by creating those events in Victoria 2 and prevent any Great War from starting beyond the first. Here's an idea of how that system would work.

1. First Great War starts
2. Victorious Alliance creates League of Nations while defeated alliance is broken up and is forced to pay reparations.
3. Leader of defeated alliance is given the worst of the punishments creating resentment towards League of Nations members
4. Nations experience relative peace for 1-2 decades depending on when Great Depression event is triggered. This system would work similar to the system put in place in HoI 4 which prevents war until chaos ensues.
5. Stock market crashes creating the event necessary for extremists to secure control of defeated leader
6. The mod in Vic 2/3 would define the members of the LoN and make them the Allies. Depending on the extremists that secure control of the most economically trashed nations, those factions are defined. Lastly the land closest to nation (ex. Saar territory) is recorded for export.
7. The mod for HoI 4 would take these nations and attempt to recreate the scenarios in which WW 2 started.

• The Allies would be in a weakened economic state while the extremists have bonuses early on.
• The Axis/Comintern would begin making demands for territory lost during the war and/or neighboring territory that contains ethnic minority of nation.
• After 3 demands, the Allies would be forced with an ultimatum leading to WW2.

There are a number of things I haven't taken into consideration such as "what if an African superpower loses?" or "what happens if the war starts earlier than 1914".There are a number of ways that people could address the previous questions like setting date requirements or restricting great war locations but I'm sure someone will find a better way. I'm only explaining the reason why creatively it is difficult to create an converter for HoI as it is really hard to make a super historical game fit ahistorical situations.

In any case, I'm gonna go back to EU4. Cheers.

 

[Miragu]

The way I see it, Paradox actually has a great opportunity after finishing Hearts of Iron 4 to simply design Victoria 3 as a game that "bridges" aspects of EU4 and the new HOI4 together, so we might not have to go about making WW2 in Victoria 3 or something crazy

For example, having Vic 3 run a army management system that starts off similar to Eu4, where you deftly maneuver armies around, but eventually blends into the system HoI4 has, where you manage huge, static fronts of armies that you can customize.

Whereas for the economy maybe Victoria 3 will retain trade routes as usual from Eu4, this time with the player building things like the Eirie, the Suez and Panama Canals and other stuff like Railroads and Oil Pipelines to alter these routes. The building system in the new Victoria game could also tie into the "Infrastructure" system already present now in both Eu4 and Hoi4.

I'm assuming HoI4 will see patches (a lot of ppl seem to be expecting something on supply), updates and expansions while Vic 3 is in development. Perhaps they will share a similar supply system? It would be two birds with one stone.

By designing Vic 3 with aspects of both endpoint-games, we might be able to see a converter between all 3 games come about easier

Hopefully Paradox does something like this. It might actually save them time and we'll get a link for all their games soon!

 

[pheonicia]

I'd much rather see a video game made by paradox dedicated specifically to the interwar period.

First, to my knowledge, there has never been a video game made that focuses on the interwar period with the treaty of Versailles negotiations and depression era as the core.
Second it would avoid the problem that neither Victoria nor Hearts of Iron can really deal with the after effects of the first world war and the subsequent rise of fascism in an interesting manner.
Third I personally think it would be really fun to try to hold a nation together through the worst economic crisis in modern history.

Ideally (in my mind) it would start in early 1917 so that both the central powers and the Entente would have a clear goal, the Central powers to drag out the war for as long as possible for a favorable peace, while the Entente would want to end it as quickly as possible to avoid the worst of the war exhaustion. This would also give all nations a chance to intervene in the inevitable revolution in Czarist Russia. Then after one side or the other surrendered, they would negotiate a peace over the course of a year or two with some sort of special mechanic. Eventually the great depression would hit (though maybe not as bad if you manage to reform the banking sector in time) and that would be the main enemy for the rest of the game.