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Ayetach

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Okay so I'm still getting the hang of this game and I noticed a few times in my game that I could create a duchy with no attached counties :blink: how does that work? and does the de jure counties transfer under the created duchy over time or do I have to destroy it again to leave it for some other noble who has those counties in that de jure area? Whats the point of me getting this offer if I can't include those relevant counties?
 

Lessing

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A duchy has states: one is de jure, which tells you what counties the duke has been possessing historically, and the other state, the current one, where possession of duchy and its de jure counties are entirely separate.

The duke however gets the chance to wage war on the holders of the de jure counties if they're not already his vassals. You should create duchies when you're able to win the war against whoever possesses the other de jure counties.
 

OrdepNM

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Titular duchies are more flavorful than anything. You can give it anyone, and can make a duchy as small as 1 county big, which in theory sounds like a great way to split those big duchies and remove power from your vassal's hands, but in practice the de jure duke still has de jure claims on the counties the titular duchy occupies and can (read: will) press those claims at any time in order to destroy that de jure duchy. Even if you split a duchy say 30-70 to favor your titular duke and make sure he isnt swallowed up, then he'll still fabricate a claim on your de jure duke and take his titles, thus bringing the whole duchy toghter and making the titular title moot.

While the exact same happens with titular kingdoms, at least in their case they integrate territory over time (100 years) so if they survive long enough they become landed like any other title. Duchies never integrate and thus become perpetually vulnerable to de jure claims.

On this topic, does anyone know if its possible to mod the game so that titular duchys also integrate like kingdoms and empires?
 

JonStryker

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@OrdepNM
No it's not.
That would need a whole new mechanic. For example that it's only possible to drift connected counties and to put a maximum number of counties in place.
 
Last edited:

Djieh

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Maybe your question has been answered sufficiently already, but let me ask this anyway: Are there no de jure counties within the duchy you can create, or are no counties displayed when the de jure-checkbox is unticked? Usually, you will be able to create a duchy when you are in possession of at least 50% of the de jure territory of said duchy. As Lessing pointed out, creating a duchy will give you a claim on the corresponding counties, enabling you to wage war on the current holder.

Be aware, though, that there will be situations in which two parties will each hold 50% of a duchy. This can lead to a "tug-of-war" situation in which the duchy is usurped back and forth, as you can usurp a duchy ten years after it last changed hands.

If the duchy you can create is of the non-landed sort, I am curious, since I have never found one of these: Where did you find it? And what are the criteria of creating these? It probably can't be bound to a certain territory, as it doesn't contain any ... :blink:
 

Ayetach

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Maybe your question has been answered sufficiently already, but let me ask this anyway: Are there no de jure counties within the duchy you can create, or are no counties displayed when the de jure-checkbox is unticked? Usually, you will be able to create a duchy when you are in possession of at least 50% of the de jure territory of said duchy. As Lessing pointed out, creating a duchy will give you a claim on the corresponding counties, enabling you to wage war on the current holder.

Be aware, though, that there will be situations in which two parties will each hold 50% of a duchy. This can lead to a "tug-of-war" situation in which the duchy is usurped back and forth, as you can usurp a duchy ten years after it last changed hands.

If the duchy you can create is of the non-landed sort, I am curious, since I have never found one of these: Where did you find it? And what are the criteria of creating these? It probably can't be bound to a certain territory, as it doesn't contain any ... :blink:

In my circumstance its the ability to create a duchy with no provices in the listing (the de jure has the said provinces associated). Since I'm king of that region I was offered the option but wouldn't that be something the holder of the territory would be offered and not the liege who might not have any of its holdings? It just seems odd to have a title to a de jure region without actually having any holdings from it in my name.
 

Djieh

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In my circumstance its the ability to create a duchy with no provices in the listing (the de jure has the said provinces associated). Since I'm king of that region I was offered the option but wouldn't that be something the holder of the territory would be offered and not the liege who might not have any of its holdings? It just seems odd to have a title to a de jure region without actually having any holdings from it in my name.

Ah, I see. If your vassal(s) hold the de jure territory of a duchy/kingdom, you can create the duchy as well. After all, following the principle of feudalism, you are granting them your land for them to rule, so to speak. It may be useful to create these duchies, even if you don't own the lands directly, since after creating the duchy you are in charge of handing it to whoever you like best - that is in game terms whoever likes you best. The advantage of this would be that you will from that point on only have to deal with that specific vassal. Imagine the duchy consists of three counties, each count being your vassal. Two of them despise you, but one count loves you. You make him the duke so that from now on the other two counts are his problem to deal with. They won't be able to join any factions in your kingdom and also won't prevent you from changing inheritance laws.
Another advantage is that you prevent "super dukes" by spreading duchies amongst your vassals. If one single person amasses a lot of titles, he will probably become dangerous to you in some way. Try to make sure nobody holds more than one duchy (except maybe if he is your heir).
If you want to, you can also give duchies to somebody who has no connection to that territory whatsoever. It will most likely cause friction between him and the counts he now is the ruler of. But I tend to try and keep the de facto duchies as close to the de jure duchies to avoid internal wars as much as possible.

You should be aware of the fact that any count within a de jure duchy you hold will have a -20 opinion modifier towards you since he desires your title. Conversely, if somebody holds a duchy and you control a county within it, he wil have a -25 opinion modifier towards you. Granting somebody a duchy will improve his/her relation towards you by +60 (I think).

Finally, as a king/emperor your vassals will dislike you (-10 for every duchy held) if you have more than two duchies to your name. At that point I would advise to spread the wealth a bit.

Long story short: It comes down to whether you want to deal with many small vassals or fewer, more potent ones. In my opinion there is no "right" or "wrong" way to handle it, it depends on the situation and the way you feel more comfortable.