Creating 1 additional idea group for each type (Suggestions)

[Destaloss]

Hello everyone
I am currently creating a mod to put 1 additional idea group for each type in the game.
My goal is to design them as a balanced alternative to already existing idea groups.
Because balancing as a single person can't be achieved easily, I want to hear your suggestions, ideas, wishes etc.

Maybe I will add more than 1 for each type, but balancing is priority number 1.
Therefore not only the idea slots need to be well chosen, but also the policies and events that come along with it.

Here is an example of what the new idea groups could look like:

Spoiler: Efficiency Ideas

+25% Reform Progress Growth

-50% State Maintenance

-50% Autonomy Change Cooldown

-20% Minimum Autonomy in Territories

-50% Expand Administration Cost

+5% Administrative Efficiency

+1 Possible Administrative Policies

-5% All Power Costs

(Giving minor policy boni)

Spoiler: Rhetoric Ideas

+100% Power Projection from Insults

-0,10 Monthly War Exhaustion

+2% Missionary Strength

+1 Diplomat, +20% Improve Relations

+2 Diplomatic reputation

+20 Vassalization Acceptance

+1 Free Policies

+1 Monarch Diplomatic Skill

(Giving lower average policy boni)

Spoiler: Organisation Ideas

+1% Yearly Army Professionalism

+10% Shock Damage

-10% Shock Damage Recieved

+10% Movement Speed

+25% Reduced Morale Damage Taken By Reserves

-25% Reinforce Cost

+1 Possible Military Policies

+1 Monarch Military Skill

(Giving above average policy boni)

Spoiler: Idea codes for anybody interested

efficiency_ideas = {
category = ADM

bonus = {
all_power_cost = -0.05
}
reformer = {
reform_progress_growth = 0.25
}
comfortable_administration = {
state_maintenance_modifier = -0.5
}
remote_control = {
autonomy_change_time = -0.5
}
unsovereign_provinces = {
min_autonomy_in_territories = 0.2
}
monster_management = {
expand_administration_cost = 0.5
}
born_statesman = {
administrative_efficiency = 0.05
}
administrative_ideology = {
possible_adm_policy = 1
}
}

rhetoric_ideas = {
category = DIP

bonus = {
monarch_diplomatic_power = 1
}
dominant_voice = {
power_projection_from_insults = 1
}
war_propaganda = {
war_exhaustion = -0.1
}
poeta_doctus = {
global_missionary_strength = 0.02
}
great_joker = {
diplomats = 1
improve_relation_modifier = 0.2
}
experienced_influence = {
diplomatic_reputation = 2
}
leader_personality = {
accept_vassalization_reasons = 20
}
ideological_rhetoric = {
free_policy = 1
}
}

organisation_ideas = {
category = MIL

bonus = {
monarch_military_power = 1
}
military_advisors = {
yearly_army_professionalism = 0.01
}
blitz_attack = {
shock_damage = 0.1
}
elastic_defense = {
shock_damage_received = 0.1
}
lockstep = {
movement_speed = 0.1
}
phase_combat = {
reserves_organisation = 0.25
}
cheap_body = {
reinforce_cost_modifier = -0.25
}
military_ideology = {
possible_mil_policy = 1
}
}

Feel free to suggest anything you like:

• changes to the example idea group
• your own idea group
• possible policies
• idea group events
• ideas to put in a new group
• etc.

EDIT: Updated "Rhetoric Ideas" and Added "Efficiency Ideas" & "Organisation Ideas".

 

[MatthewP]

Seems like a fun project. Maybe if I have time later I'll take a stab at one.

I think your sample idea group is worse than either influence or diplo, which it's sort of in the middle of. Most of the modifiers are really niche or weak (insults, trade power, rival change, claims are pretty weak, vassalization is maybe good for a very specific situation but generally bad).

But it could be competitive if it had a couple really good policies. Which leads to a general observation, that it's hard to balance an idea group without a set of policies.

 

[Kryndude]

I think the most important thing to consider is the role of each idea group. For example, if you're planning to diplo annex a lot you take influence, if you're going to dev a lot you take economic. There are main function for each idea group and the new ones shouldn't overlap, otherwise they'll just be better or worse versions of pre-existing idea groups and won't provide meaningful strategic choices.

The game is ultimately about increasing your total development. There are many ways to do so, and I'd see if there's a game mechanic that's not particularily reinforced by the idea groups we currently have.

The rest are just flavor and should be easy to fill in.

 

[st360]

I cant read code. Does your idea group give 6 power projection from insults instead of 5?

 

[bokorthedust]

I cant read code. Does your idea group give 6 power projection from insults instead of 5?

It should give double.

 

[Blust]

1 diplo MP seems op

 

[Kompetan]

1 diplo MP seems op

I think so to others not so much also its the 1 oneI would take this and not the others and milk the diplo

 

[EarlKonrad]

Hello everyone
I am currently creating a mod to put 1 additional idea group for each type in the game.
My goal is to design them as a balanced alternative to already existing idea groups.
Because balancing as a single person can't be achieved easily, I want to hear your suggestions, ideas, wishes etc.

Maybe I will add more than 1 for each type, but balancing is priority number 1.
Therefore not only the idea slots need to be well chosen, but also the policies and events that come along with it.

Here is an example of what a new DIP idea could look like:

rhetoric_ideas = {
category = DIP

bonus = {
monarch_diplomatic_power = 1
}
dominant_voice = {
power_projection_from_insults = 1
}
dealers_hands = {
transfer_trade_power_reasons = 25
}
leader_personality = {
accept_vassalization_reasons = 15
}
great_joker = {
improve_relation_modifier = 0.2
}
experienced_influence = {
diplomatic_reputation = 2
}
legendary_liar = {
fabricate_claims_cost = -0.35
}
opportunist = {
rival_change_cost = -0.75
}

Feel free to suggest anything you like:

• changes to the example idea group
• your own idea group
• possible policies
• idea group events
• ideas to put in a new group
• etc.

Too situational of a support group to have any real use. While some of the modifiers are interesting, their use is incredibly situational.

My suggestion for 3 new idea groups are:

- Administrative:
Centralisation X Decentralisation Actually two mutually exclusive groups. While the first focus on managing Autonomy, Governing Capacity, Government Reforms and absolutism, the second makes Estates much happier and easier to deal with.

- Diplomatic:
Can't really think of anything here.

- Military:
Mercenaries
A group entirely dedicated to making mercenaries more affordable and stronger. Want to play Hungary and go ham on mercs? Want to play a republic and have nothing but mercs? Here is the idea group for you.

 

[Nostalgium]

- Military:
Mercenaries
A group entirely dedicated to making mercenaries more affordable and stronger. Want to play Hungary and go ham on mercs? Want to play a republic and have nothing but mercs? Here is the idea group for you.

A neat addition to a Mercenary-focused group could also be to allow the renting out of larger armies as Condotierri.

 

[Kryndude]

Merc focused idea group will fall off as soon as you have the economy to maintain professionalism. You also can't divide merc troops so their use is extremely limited; can't carpet siege, can't minmax combat width, forced to use cav, can't consolidate for fast replenishment. Unless the new merc idea group helps deal with these issues, I don't see myself ever taking it.

That said, if there's a way to negate the 5% profesionalism penalty, I think it might have its use. Wonder if that's possible through modding tho.

Maybe something like

Merc idea group bonus
- No longer suffer professionalism loss when hiring mercs

 

[Kryndude]

Another theme I can think of is logistics and army maneuver. Something strong enough to reliably enable hit-and-run tactic; army movment speed, hostile movement speed penalty in owned provinces, army replenishment rate, supply limit or attrition reduction, some actual combat bonus to make it competitive.

For diplo maybe something focused on production for the trade good bonus?

 

[MatthewP]

Another theme I can think of is logistics and army maneuver. Something strong enough to reliably enable hit-and-run tactic; army movment speed, hostile movement speed penalty in owned provinces, army replenishment rate, supply limit or attrition reduction, some actual combat bonus to make it competitive.

This seems like a cool idea. Here's a stab at it (all modifier names are made up and not real code, but I think all real modifiers). I didn't put much thought into the ordering. My feeling is this is slightly worse than existing military groups in general, but quite strong for a specific strategy of defending one's territory then launching quick counterattacks.

flexibility_ideas = {
category = MIL

bonus = {
combat_bonus_in_friendly_territory = 1
}
outriders = {
cavalry_combat_ability = 0.1
}
local_guides = {
army_movement_speed_in_friendly_territory = 0.2
}
logistics_train = {
attrition = -0.1 #or whatever is -1
}
quick_march = {
army_movement_speed = 0.2
}
reinforcement_pipeline = {
army_replenishment_rate = 0.1
}
siege_train = {
artillery_bonus_vs_fort = 1
}
efficient_pay = {
army_morale = 0.05
army_upkeep_cost = -0.05
}

 

[Runite Drill]

Awesome project! Good luck. I did the same thing a few years ago (including events and policies) - feel free to draw some inspiration from it!

Another theme I can think of is logistics and army maneuver. Something strong enough to reliably enable hit-and-run tactic; army movment speed, hostile movement speed penalty in owned provinces, army replenishment rate, supply limit or attrition reduction, some actual combat bonus to make it competitive.

For diplo maybe something focused on production for the trade good bonus?

I did Logistics with the aim of doing what you suggested, but found it crossed a little with Quantity, so turned half of it into an artillery/siege group.

My three groups were Patronage, Sovereignty and Logistics. Note my main objective was to try use a lot of the newer modifiers, rather than the old. I also haven't got around to updating it since 1.30.

Spoiler: Three new idea groups [EU4 1.30]

NEW IDEAS
*Patronage Ideas [ADM]
1. Yearly Legitimacy +0.5
2. Ruler Culture Advisor Cost -25%
3. Government Reform Progress +10%, +1% Renaissance Spread in Capital
4. Monthly Splendor +1, Build Time -10%
5. Discovered Relations Impact -50%, Imperial Authority Growth +10%, Imperial Mandate Growth +0.05
6. Goods Produced Modifier +10%
7. No Penalty from Negative Religious Tolerance (note there is an event that may remove this bonus after a couple decades)
BONUS: All Power Cost -2.5%, +1% Renaissance Spread in Capital, +1 Available Policy

*Sovereignty Ideas [DIP]
1. Promote Culture Cost -50%
2. Capture Ship Chance +10%, Claim Duration +25%
3. Ship Trade Power +20%, +1 Naval Combat Bonus in Owned Seas
4. Liberty Desire from Subject Development - 20%, Possible Condottieri +50%
5. Administrative Efficiency +5%
6. Maximum Absolutism +10
7. Rival Change Cost -100%, Fort Maintenance on Border with Rival -50%
BONUS: Casus Belli Against Neighbouring Governments, Marines Limit +10%

*Logistics Ideas [MIL]
1. Cavalry Flanking +50%, Cavalry to Infantry Ratio +10%
2. Movement Speed +10%
3. Reinforcement Cost -20%
4. Loot Speed -20%, Raze Power Gain +10%
5. Morale Damage to Reserves -50%
6. Free Leader +1, Leader Recruitment Cost -10%
7. Artillery Damage from the Backrow +10%
BONUS: Artillery Bonus vs Fort +1

 

[EarlKonrad]

Another theme I can think of is logistics and army maneuver. Something strong enough to reliably enable hit-and-run tactic; army movment speed, hostile movement speed penalty in owned provinces, army replenishment rate, supply limit or attrition reduction, some actual combat bonus to make it competitive.

For diplo maybe something focused on production for the trade good bonus?

The problem with logistics is that that is already well covered by quantity and defensive.

Trade is already all encompassing trade. There isn't much room for new stuff there.

 

[Kryndude]

The problem with logistics is that that is already well covered by quantity and defensive.

Trade is already all encompassing trade. There isn't much room for new stuff there.

True but with the right combination of ideas I think it's possible to create something new, because it all comes down to that one or two core ideas that changes your approach to the game. Hostile movement speed penalty has that potential imo.

This seems like a cool idea. Here's a stab at it (all modifier names are made up and not real code, but I think all real modifiers). I didn't put much thought into the ordering. My feeling is this is slightly worse than existing military groups in general, but quite strong for a specific strategy of defending one's territory then launching quick counterattacks.

flexibility_ideas = {
category = MIL

bonus = {
combat_bonus_in_friendly_territory = 1
}
outriders = {
cavalry_combat_ability = 0.1
}
local_guides = {
army_movement_speed_in_friendly_territory = 0.2
}
logistics_train = {
attrition = -0.1 #or whatever is -1
}
quick_march = {
army_movement_speed = 0.2
}
reinforcement_pipeline = {
army_replenishment_rate = 0.1
}
siege_train = {
artillery_bonus_vs_fort = 1
}
efficient_pay = {
army_morale = 0.05
army_upkeep_cost = -0.05
}

Hostile movement speed penalty is key imo. It delays enemy reinforcement and really helps fighting wars at numerical disadvantage. Movement speed alone is not enough. But you do need to add more direct combat bonus (just in different forms) otherwise the idea group will be straight-up inferior. Also, applying hostile movement speed penalty to occupied enemy provinces might add some tactical depth, if possible (or is it already how it works? Not sure, never tried it before).

 

[MatthewP]

True but with the right combination of ideas I think it's possible to create something new, because it all comes down to that one or two core ideas that changes your approach to the game. Hostile movement speed penalty has that potential imo.



Hostile movement speed penalty is key imo. It delays enemy reinforcement and really helps fighting wars at numerical disadvantage. Movement speed alone is not enough. But you do need to add more direct combat bonus (just in different forms) otherwise the idea group will be straight-up inferior. Also, applying hostile movement speed penalty to occupied enemy provinces might add some tactical depth, if possible (or is it already how it works? Not sure, never tried it before).

Good point, Local guides could also add a hostile movement speed penalty.

I’m not sure I’d want to add a lot more combat bonuses. It’s already really strong on friendly territory thanks to the combat bonus (probably similar to 5% discipline). I definitely think it should be weaker on enemy territory than other mil groups and make up for it with that bonus, move speed and sieging. Maybe the artillery siege bonus could be +2? Not sure if that’s too strong.

 

[Guibou]

I like new modifiers. Here's my idea for a diplo group : Fornicator.

1. Women rights : Allow female regent, advisor, general and admiral
2. Bastard at hand : Always have an heir of your dynasty to crown
3. The seducer : +25% relation improvement with monarchs of opposite sex
4. Fille de joie : Settler increase +20, dev cost -5%
5. And you get one : Increase chances to spread your dynasty via prestige
6. It stays in the family : 10% increase chances to integrate PU on monarch death
7. We're all the same under : No heretic modifiers penaly to relation

Bonus : Until death do us part : Royal marriages do not take a diplo slot

 

[Leo0502]

Do you consider modifying existing idea groups to balance them with new ones or just want to add new idea groups?

 

[Pellucid]

For MIL I would absolutely add something like:

Guerilla Warfare
1. +1 terrain bonus when defending on non-plainslike provinces.
2. -20% shock casualties, -10% shock damage.
3. +1 terrain bonus in capitol terrain type.
4. +200% defensiveness on provinces with a fort level of 0.
5. -20% fire casualties, -10% fire damage.
6. +1 Leaders without upkeep.
7. +1 naval combat bonus off of owned coasts.
Bonus: +10% Discipline while outnumbered in combat.

The game needs a "playing tall/small nation" MIL set.

 

[MachopPower69]

Regional Ideas

1. -1 unrest
2. +10% manpower while at war
3. Trade power +10%
4. Diplomatic Relations +1
5. Diplomatic Reputation +0.25 per ally
6. Relations +20%
7. Claiming land cost -10%
When fully done: Relations against Heretics and Heathens cut in half; Council of Trent bad relations removed