Created vassals losing their cores

[Fexcad]

I released Styria and the Golden Horde in my ironman Ottoman game, but they both immediately lost all of their cores except for the 1 province I used to release them. I didn't see anything on the forums about it, so is this a known/unknown bug or a game mechanic I'm not familiar with?

Also, does anyone have advice for invading the HRE? I was planning on using Styria for access to Italy and Rome for the achievement, but that isn't feasible now, as I'd really rather not core all the provinces between Croatia and the pope.

 

[LightsShadows]

As to the core issue, what's going on is that cores last twice as long if their nation no longer exists. So, say Syria's cores normally last 200 years (probably not correct). However, since they don't exist at game start, the cores will last four hundred years. Another 201 years past, and then you annex one of Syria's provinces and release them. Core timer immediately drops to 200 years, which has already passed, so the cores disappear.

As to the HRE, just wait till the emperor (if he's big and scary) is fighting another major power, then DOW on HRE countries.

 

[darianstarfire]

So I made a mod that didn't make pretty much any cores expire and you have to be careful with vassals. It will seem like they have a core but in fact will have a claim on that territory. The tooltip will tell you but I vassaled Brunei because I intended to feed Aceh to it. Nope, the icons had just been claims.

There is a bug too...

 

[Fexcad]

I'm not sure that's what happening. Styria doesn't exist at the 1444 start, but I created it in 1601, and the Golden Horde had only been destroyed like 50 years before I recreated it. Both should've been under the 250 year timer for lost cores, as the provinces were all still their primary culture.

It wasn't claims either because they didn't exist at the time.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

I'm not sure that's what happening. Styria doesn't exist at the 1444 start, but I created it in 1601, and the Golden Horde had only been destroyed like 50 years before I recreated it. Both should've been under the 250 year timer for lost cores, as the provinces were all still their primary culture.

It wasn't claims either because they didn't exist at the time.

They don't have 250 year timers. It's a bit confusing since the word primary is used in two contexts. Countries have a primary culture, but cultures also have a primary country. Every culture only has one primary country (or none sometimes), but multiple countries can have the same primary culture.

So in the case of Styria, its primary culture is austrian, yes. But austrian's primary nation is Austria, not Styria. So Austria gets 250/500 year cores in austrian provinces, while Styria gets the normal 100/200 year cores. Those would have expired in 1644, but after you released them that was reset to 1544, which had already expired, so they disappeared.

Similarly, Golden Horde's primary culture is tartar, but it's also not the primary nation for that culture, that's Kazan.

 

[unmerged(184583)]

This really needs to get fixed, or at least the tooltips to actually reflect what is going on. I find it hard to believe that keeping that province, wait 5 years, pause, release vassal, dow nation holding more vassal territory is really WAD. It is so incredibly gamey it really breaks the immersion. Why not just have 500 and 200 core times (primary and secondary), the rest just adds annoying, confusing mechanisms that really make no sense game wise or historically.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

This really needs to get fixed, or at least the tooltips to actually reflect what is going on. I find it hard to believe that keeping that province, wait 5 years, pause, release vassal, dow nation holding more vassal territory is really WAD. It is so incredibly gamey it really breaks the immersion. Why not just have 500 and 200 core times (primary and secondary), the rest just adds annoying, confusing mechanisms that really make no sense game wise or historically.

I suspect it's because that's exactly the thing that paradox doesn't want you doing quite as much. With this system, the cores are there for you to release as a country in a peace deal for a lot longer then you can take one province worth of AE to get the entire country under your control. Ofcourse now us evil players have found a gamey way to still do that, but I'm sure that wasn't paradox' plan

 

[Rey]

I released Styria and the Golden Horde in my ironman Ottoman game, but they both immediately lost all of their cores except for the 1 province I used to release them. I didn't see anything on the forums about it, so is this a known/unknown bug or a game mechanic I'm not familiar with?

Also, does anyone have advice for invading the HRE? I was planning on using Styria for access to Italy and Rome for the achievement, but that isn't feasible now, as I'd really rather not core all the provinces between Croatia and the pope.

Yeah it's a known issue that screws up the middle-to-late game vassal feeding strategy. Here is a whole thread dedicated to this bug.

 

[unmerged(184583)]

I suspect it's because that's exactly the thing that paradox doesn't want you doing quite as much. With this system, the cores are there for you to release as a country in a peace deal for a lot longer then you can take one province worth of AE to get the entire country under your control. Ofcourse now us evil players have found a gamey way to still do that, but I'm sure that wasn't paradox' plan

Well, probably not but it is happening, and in the world of programming its all about closing loose ends. You have to account for everything, and clearly they didn't. I could really go either way on the actual disappearing/non disappearing, basically boiling down to little expansion/mass expansion, its the confusion, inconsistency, and lack of information that is the problem.

For example, I dow Ming, take 3 provinces, release Zhou, Xi, and Shun. The very instant I do it all of Xi's cores disappear while Zhou and Shun's do not. You can explain the interworkings of the engine all you want, this makes no sense.

 

[Fexcad]

Ah, that makes more, I didn't understand the distinction between the different uses of primary. Thanks for the info

 

[The-King]

Nations will lose cores on provinces they have after 50 years or so (Assuming its a different culture). However if the nation is dead then it won't show those cores going away. So if you release a nation, it'll look at that nation and see that it has not been at war with the owners of its other cores for more than 50 years (because it hasn't even existed for that long) and therefore the game will make them lose all their cores. I'm not sure if this can be applied to styria.

I was playing a Russia game in about the 1530's. I took a province in the middle of ukraine, everything had been converted to lithuanian culture except kiev and some other ukrainian province. When I released Ukraine, it had all of its cores on what its supposed to have and not too long after all the cores disappeared except for Kiev.

 

[zodium]

The only way to roll is to sit on the province and only release the vassal a day before you declare war, since cores expire monthly, not daily. Going to war refreshes cores.