Crazy Idea

[unmerged(59414)]

Why don't We just pay them to make CK 2. Anyone who wants CK2 can donate to Paradox. Paradox have creative rights and we can make suggestion if we choose to. To sweeten the deal we can buy the game upon release and paradox can keep all the profits. Is a win-win, We get CK2 and they get money.

 

[.Spartan]

I'm all for it! Shoot we even had this very discussion with Stardock some time ago but sadly the idea never went any where.

Shoot I think the market for CKII would be relatively big, especially considering the educational market! Surely there is a need for a seriously very detailed and accurate historical heraldry simulator! Additionally,there are many heraldry societies around the world that I think would support such a project. CK is just to cool to let die. I would also like to see a really nice CoA maker and game system built into it if possible. This in addition to a printable family tree and national history all in a nice .pdf format!

On a side note, I noticed a new title - Russian I think, that put me in mind of CK on GG when I watch the video and saw the images. The title is "Reign: Conflict of Nations". I could be really off base here but I did get that special CK feeling when watching it so I dont know... If it is similar, I wonder if it will become the spiritual successor to CK.

 

[Lord Blekinge]

I would be willing to give some of hard earned won to the cause, CK 2 is the only game I am really waiting for. That Reign game reminds me of Knights of honour, seems to be very close to that game.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

How much would making a game like CK2 cost ? (serious question)

 

[TempestDK]

Seeing that they are spending around a year on Vicky2, and hiring outside company for testing (which can't be cheap) ...I would say in the region of 7-8 millions SKK (roughly 1 mill. EUR) if we say that 7 people are working fulltime on it.

So I think we need to find the fans with the big pocket books

 

[unmerged(84239)]

Why don't We just pay them to make CK 2. Anyone who wants CK2 can donate to Paradox. Paradox have creative rights and we can make suggestion if we choose to. To sweeten the deal we can buy the game upon release and paradox can keep all the profits. Is a win-win, We get CK2 and they get money.

This is silly...
Why would I pay for a game twice?
Especially considering it will be not playable for the first year (until the 6th-7th patch or so...)

 

[TempestDK]

Especially considering it will be not playable for the first year (until the 6th-7th patch or so...)

Not having big confidence in PI?

I have the (slightly naive) hope that PI has learned their lesson with HOI3 ... and that V2 and any future games will be in much better quality when released, even though patches will always be needed.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Seeing that they are spending around a year on Vicky2, and hiring outside company for testing (which can't be cheap) ...I would say in the region of 7-8 millions SKK (roughly 1 mill. EUR) if we say that 7 people are working fulltime on it.

So I think we need to find the fans with the big pocket books

So lets say that the game will cost € 40, that means that about 25,000 people will have to buy it. Currently about 500 people have signed the CK2 petition, which means we are not quite there yet.

But the beta-patch for DV has been downloaded over 25,000 times. So there is a market for it.

 

[unmerged(84239)]

Not having big confidence in PI?

I have the (slightly naive) hope that PI has learned their lesson with HOI3 ... and that V2 and any future games will be in much better quality when released, even though patches will always be needed.

No-no!

All the paradox games I tried turned out to be brilliant in the end. This includes: EU2, CK, Victoria, HoI2, EU3.

But in all cases, the game was pretty much a beta at the release. Even the most stable EU2 needed maybe 4-5 patches (the final was 1.09. IIRC). I understand that they don't have the funds to properly test and optimise it, that is not a big problem.
BUT I will only buy the my next paradox game when most major bugs are already fixed, as I am not a tester.


Also, I will wait for Vicky 2 before I start becoming optimistic.
HoI3 was a big blow aimed at my confidence in PI, true.

 

[.Spartan]

I dont know what the costs are in EU but from I understand similar games (small developer & unique glame play -etc..) such as Sins of a Solar Empire (SoaSE) developed by Ironclad cost about $250k to develop.

Shoot if everyone that posted in the petition thread prepaid $40 USD for the game most of the cost absorbed without PI even investing a penny of its own cash and even give it a sizable chunk of money to sit for cash flow to boot throughout the process.

Then there are other, like myself, that would invest thousands if given the chance to help develop the title.

In short CKII is more than doable but the ball is in PI court and has been for a long time now.

 

[TempestDK]

I dont know what the costs are in EU but from I understand similar games (small developer & unique glame play -etc..) such as Sins of a Solar Empire (SoaSE) developed by Ironclad cost about $250k to develop.

Shoot if everyone that posted in the petition thread prepaid $40 USD for the game most of the cost absorbed without PI even investing a penny of its own cash and even give it a sizable chunk of money to sit for cash flow to boot throughout the process.

Then there are other, like myself, that would invest thousands if given the chance to help develop the title.

In short CKII is more than doable but the ball is in PI court and has been for a long time now.

The problem is that PI are no longer developing these small games with the use of 1 or 2 developers ... they have designers, QA people, graphics people, developers etc. .... and I think 7 full-time people is a good estimate (might be 4 or 5 full-time and some ad hoc though). In Denmark it is considered that a software developer costs around 1 mill. DKK a year in salary and infrastructure. Which is what I based the estimate on. I am assuming the prices for swedish developers are the same.

Doing it for $250K would mean that Johan is doing it alone (again), which I highly doubt will happen. IF they decide to make CK2, they would want to do it right and invest heavily in the development like they are currently doing with Vicky2.

So I think it will all depend on how V2 sales go .... if it makes a profit, I am sure they will do CK2 at some point, as I think that has better selling potential.

 

[.Spartan]

The problem is that PI are no longer developing these small games with the use of 1 or 2 developers ... they have designers, QA people, graphics people, developers etc. .... and I think 7 full-time people is a good estimate (might be 4 or 5 full-time and some ad hoc though). In Denmark it is considered that a software developer costs around 1 mill. DKK a year in salary and infrastructure. Which is what I based the estimate on. I am assuming the prices for swedish developers are the same.

Doing it for $250K would mean that Johan is doing it alone (again), which I highly doubt will happen. IF they decide to make CK2, they would want to do it right and invest heavily in the development like they are currently doing with Vicky2.

So I think it will all depend on how V2 sales go .... if it makes a profit, I am sure they will do CK2 at some point, as I think that has better selling potential.

I hope they would want to do it right as well and invest as much as necessary for it to be something truly epic in scope, form and function. I really would have a hard time seeing the costs go over one million USD to be frank unless a full 3D production with state-of-the-art graphics and cinematic were to be planned.

Cost wise, I would consider using as much volunteer as possible for alpha, beta and gamma testing stages as well as for historic information. If done properly the grassroots element of the project alone could ensure the success of the project.

Then if a "lite" version maybe with a special event editor for teacher to use is made and given to schools freely (counts as a donation in the EU??) for history & civics classes the potential market could be very large and the long-tail would be amazing methinks.

Additionally there are organizations such as the SCA that might be willing to become a "partner" for the title. Maybe have a license included with each annual renewal for its members at a nice price for the base game. There really are several interesting way I can think of to market a game like this but I digress...

 

[TempestDK]

I hope they would want to do it right as well and invest as much as necessary for it to be something truly epic in scope, form and function. I really would have a hard time seeing the costs go over one million USD to be frank unless a full 3D production with state-of-the-art graphics and cinematic were to be planned.

Cost wise, I would consider using as much volunteer as possible for alpha, beta and gamma testing stages as well as for historic information. If done properly the grassroots element of the project alone could ensure the success of the project.

Then if a "lite" version maybe with a special event editor for teacher to use is made and given to schools freely (counts as a donation in the EU??) for history & civics classes the potential market could be very large and the long-tail would be amazing methinks.

Additionally there are organizations such as the SCA that might be willing to become a "partner" for the title. Maybe have a license included with each annual renewal for its members at a nice price for the base game. There really are several interesting way I can think of to market a game like this but I digress...

Well if they have around 4-5 full-time people on it, then maybe 1mill. USD is a fair guess. But any more than that and it will exceed it because of high salaries in the scandinavian countries.

I don't think of PI games as educational tools .... they do put in alot of research to make it as historically correct as possible, but they might not get the Coat of Arms correct for certain places ... also the map is no near accurate (in detail) enough to be of use for that.

PI are not professional historians and thus much of what they do is what they can find as "amateurs".

I am sure they would love to utilize any fan-based material (like the CLIO map for V2) if they deem it better then what they can do themselves. Of course incorporation either TASS or DVIP (at least parts of them) into CK2 would save them alot of time. But they they would have to judge that compared to what they could do themselves.

PI games are now so big projects that they can't rely on fans beta-testing anymore. That was obvious from HOI3 and why they have hired a Test company for V2 to do professional testing. I still think beta-testing have it's uses, especially if they hand pick veterans of the game to help out, who can help with game-play and balancing issues and the professionals can do regression testing and find crash bugs and code problems..

 

[Tommy4ever]

This idea is a little bit silly. I reckon you could probably raise £1000 tops from the devoted fans. That isn't really going to go very far. However I do think that, although CK was a flop, CK2 could well make a profit. However raising fan donations is not the way.

 

[unmerged(203645)]

Until they even begin to hint about making it this issue is moot. I'd suspect an official poll on who would "pre-order" CK2 would be an easier solution for them to get moving on it.

 

[Kolonel]

I never played Vicky, but I'm buying Vicky 2 just to encourage P'dox to make CK2.

 

[Count Lake]

I never played Vicky, but I'm buying Vicky 2 just to encourage P'dox to make CK2.

I played Vicky and Ricky, hated them both, and I am still going to buy Vicky 2 to show my support for my favorite game developer.

 

[.Spartan]

I played Vicky and Ricky, hated them both, and I am still going to buy Vicky 2 to show my support for my favorite game developer.

I'm also in this camp. Shoot the last several titles I got was for this express purpose. I will also get a couple more shortly for the same reason.

 

[TempestDK]

I never got into Vicky back when it was released ... it was too complicated and the interface was confusing, and there was too much micro-management.

But I do think that V2 has the potential to be a good game. I am looking forward to political mayhem in the 19th. century

Even if it wasn't anything for me, I would buy it, to help it make a profit so the chances increase for a CK2.

 

[DaeMoohn]

4-7 developers in one year = 1.000.000 EUR. It would cost 150k EUR yearly for each developer? That would be like 12.5k monthly. That would include salary, taxes, training, food, drinks, electricity, rent, hardware, software licenses... Expensive life in Sweden there is!