Coups in the other Countries

[gadajs]

To get a dominion back, you have to completely annex it and release it again, unless that dominion is of an annexable size that would take a long time.

No, you are 100% wrong. Satellite status was something you could ask for in Vic 1 and there has been absolutely nothing in the dev diaries to suggest that you would not be able to make satelliting the nation one of your war goals.

Satelliting was something you could do to even a large European nation in one war so I really think you need to stop throwing your toys out of the pram and trust the devs on this one.

 

[Orinsul]

look at the difference between what you quoted and what you said

I used the word DOMINION

You said Satellite

therein lies the problem. You cant make a country a dominion except on release.

IF dominions CANT change their form of government [outside of revolution] UNLESS their master does and theyre changing to match, then there is little problem. but if they do which in no circumstances they would be able to, you must have the authority to enforce your will on your Dominions and Satellites as well, with the Threat of War, not as the result of war or else it makes lordship meaningless and the situation nonsense.

 

[truth is life]

To get a dominion back, you have to completely annex it and release it again, unless that dominion is of an annexable size that would take a long time.

Dominions shouldnt be able to make large-scale government reforms, but we all know in the game they will be able to. Realisitically, in order for say, Canada to change its system of government it should have to be though revolution or by the government declaring war on Britain.
There would be no legal way to do it, as the english Houses would have the authority to prevent it. BUT IF it did happen they should also have the authority to repair it.

And Should Britain stop being a monarchy [Say Republicianism wins out, infinite possibilities of alt-history of course], it should have the authority to enforce the same reform on its colonies.

The most pratical and generic [that is to say not specific to one nation] is for a diplomatic or spy action to perform a coup in a country you have authority over.

If a master state undergoes a significant change in government (eg., from a monarchy to a republic, from a republic to a dictatorship, etc.), then the satellites and dominions should have the opportunity to either accept the change and reform their internal politics to be more in line with their master's, attempt to break away at the moment of weakness, or reject the change and serve as refuges for the old regime. Dominions might be especially likely to favor the latter. Then, if the master wants them back, he will have to go to war. A war aim that includes the restoration of satellite or dominion status (much like the casus belli in EUIII that lets the leader of a PU restore it by winning a war for a brief period of time after the junior rejects him), hence forming a government inline with the master's, would be an excellent fit for this situation. A purely diplomatic or spy action would not necessarily fit because it is unlikely that the government could be overthrown purely by the threat of force and the possibility that other Great Powers might intervene to carve off chunks of the former master's empire, or at least prevent him from regaining it (ie., by allying themselves with the former satellites/dominions).

Ignoring possible alt-historical scenarios and the few historical attempts, it seems eminently likely that in a moment of chaos and violence that certain elements in "oppressed" states might seize the opportunity to rise up for their independence, or that distant regimes more conservative than the homeland might rather prefer to maintain their historical ways rather than reform their government (or might even strongly disagree with those reforms). And the master state might and very often should be too busy dealing with its own house to necessarily pursue its minions immediately.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Signed. Can anyone imagine conservative British dominions remaining perfectly loyal to a mother country that had just shot the King and proclaimed the workers' state?

 

[EGaffney]

Ussr?

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I meant a hypothetical Commie Britain. Sorry that wasn't too clear.

But the USSR is a good example, too. When Russia fell to bolshevik filth, Poland and Finland - if we may call them satellites - broke free in no uncertain terms, Finland suffering a civil war.

Of course it didn't hurt that Russia was in a state of collapse and Lenin was suffering from a fit of anti-imperialist idealism that saw even the Ukraine and Transcaucasus temporarily released.

Mongolia on the other hand ultimately followed the USSR's lead after some heavy persuasion, but the Russian-influenced zones within China went their own merry way.

 

[EGaffney]

I think it depended on ability to project military power. USSR was directing military power inwards, to fight whites/Europeans. The ultimate fact of the British Empire was its ability to project military power around the world.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I think it depended on ability to project military power. USSR was directing military power inwards, to fight whites/Europeans. The ultimate fact of the British Empire was its ability to project military power around the world.

Russia may not have been able to project power around the world but its reach certainly extended to Poland.

 

[Andrelvis]

I meant a hypothetical Commie Britain. Sorry that wasn't too clear.

But the USSR is a good example, too. When Russia fell to bolshevik filth, Poland and Finland - if we may call them satellites - broke free in no uncertain terms, Finland suffering a civil war.

Of course it didn't hurt that Russia was in a state of collapse and Lenin was suffering from a fit of anti-imperialist idealism that saw even the Ukraine and Transcaucasus temporarily released.

Mongolia on the other hand ultimately followed the USSR's lead after some heavy persuasion, but the Russian-influenced zones within China went their own merry way.

Poland didn't "break free" from the USSR or Russia though, it was ceded to Germany, which would designate it's future.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Poland didn't "break free" from the USSR or Russia though, it was ceded to Germany, which would designate it's future.

Fair enough, but the first Germans to enter Finland went to support the Whites in the course of their Civil War.

 

[Emperor Walter]

Poland didn't "break free" from the USSR or Russia though, it was ceded to Germany, which would designate it's future.

Poland was put under the adminstration of the Polish General Governement in 1916, after being proclaimed by the germans.

 

[Phalanxia]

I think it depended on ability to project military power. USSR was directing military power inwards, to fight whites/Europeans. The ultimate fact of the British Empire was its ability to project military power around the world.

Yes, but if there's a Communist revolution going on in Britain, most of that military power is going to be directed inwards, as the Russians did.

 

[Andrelvis]

Poland was put under the adminstration of the Polish General Governement in 1916, after being proclaimed by the germans.

"After" being the keyword there

 

[Aeon221]

"After" being the keyword there

Which, I'd point out, is perfectly modeled in Vicky 2 as is. You, the dastardly Deustchlanders, invade Russia after joining the Kingdom of Austria-Austria in a Great Power War launched to make sure that people LEAVE AUSTRIA ALONE and RESPECT HER PROBLEMS. You then beat Russia's ass like an uppity rent boy, and force him to drop his trouh^h^h^h^elease Poland as your satellite. Poland becomes your constibitch, and the Russian people then wage a war against pointless war, in order to replace their tyrannical Tzar with a tyrannical Chairman.

At the conclusion of Austria-Slovakia-Romania--Daddy-Didn't-Love-You-Enough-Estandlebland's Great Power War, which you lose when Britain blockades you, thus preventing crucial imports of delicious Ben & Jerry's ice cream from America, thereby causing your troops to lose heart and surrender, you and everyone else decide to take advantage of an "OMG HE KILT GUBERMINT DIRTY CUMMONISTS!!!" casus belli to enter the base of that uppity Communist boy, and beat him like the uppity rent boy he once was. But, due to issues like the entire male world having pretty much died in the last war, you and the rest of the world lose.

Isn't that a happy go lucky fun time of epic proportions?

 

[Petrarca]

Isn't that a happy go lucky fun time of epic proportions?

Do you think that we can convince Paradox to change V2's tag line to this, using your example above as the expanded version?

 

[Aeon221]

Us neo-deconstructivist anarcho-syndicalists laugh at any attempt to include us in a project which is not insanely complex and guided at all times by the need to replace wage slavery and the insatiable anti-worker state with farms made entirely out of aluminium and concrete.

Also I couldn't possibly be asked to support anything that lacks a hyphen. How do you know it's important if it doesn't have a hyphen? No, no that wouldn't do at all.



And so as to divert criticism that my reply lacks a sufficient focus on Victoria 2, this thread, or anything else of relevance to modern man, woman or dog, I say unto you the following. If Victoria 2 had a hyphen, it would solve this issue of coups once and for all, one way or the other.

 

[Emperor Walter]

Us neo-deconstructivist anarcho-syndicalists laugh at any attempt to include us in a project which is not insanely complex and guided at all times by the need to replace wage slavery and the insatiable anti-worker state with farms made entirely out of aluminium and concrete.

Also I couldn't possibly be asked to support anything that lacks a hyphen. How do you know it's important if it doesn't have a hyphen? No, no that wouldn't do at all.



And so as to divert criticism that my reply lacks a sufficient focus on Victoria 2, this thread, or anything else of relevance to modern man, woman or dog, I say unto you the following. If Victoria 2 had a hyphen, it would solve this issue of coups once and for all, one way or the other.

 

[demanvanwezel]

I'll have what Aeon 221 has had

 

[Aeon221]

Though many may delight in these salacious attempts to set free the sublime, it should be noted that there is more than a little good in keeping order and obeying the prescripted rule, especially when it is on behalf of as good a company as Paradox.

Therefore, though there be many fellow lovers of the hyphen, I request that we maintain our focus on the topic at hand -- namely, bloodless or blood minimized coups in foreign nations and more broadly the desire to force governmental conversion as EU3 did religious.

This is a worthy goal, so let not my mangy meanderings of the mind distract you from it!

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Wot the hell are you talking about? I want some of those pills you must be taking.