Country Cousin review

[Riddermark]

ok this is certainly after 1.5 issue, however i was wondering wont it be much better if when a Heirless KING dies that this would result in kingdom breakdown rather than random king ? and this applying only for kings not dukes etc..

if there is a way to completely revoke the king title and destroy it too would be great

and of course every former duke should get a claim on the other dukes or whatever way better to make them strive for the king title..

actually even better would be to have a remaining kingdom of what the demense provinces of the kings were - and just give all his former vassals claim on king title and voila :wacko:

 

[caknuck]

Doesn't "Country Cousin Review" sould like some old 1950's C&W radio show?

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Maybe CK2. Not to mention it sounds awfully ahistorical. Ending of a line didn't break kingdoms down.

 

[Lord Prime]

Perhaps a kingdom could go elective if the king has no heir, i mean that the strongest vassal could take the crown.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

In this thread, such a thing was recently discussed. Alltough the thread title suggests something different

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218915

 

[unmerged(29883)]

lol...thanks, Veldmaarschalk. I was about to scream "No! We discussed this to death!"

I also feel Riddermark's suggestion to be, whilst practical, very ahistorical. Whilst I initially argued against Jinnai's suggestion in the thread above, I ended up thinking it would be the right way to go.

However, in all honesty, country cousins would only affect kingdoms in the very early game stages, since new kingdoms so rarely form. Country cousin issues are far more prevalent in the county tier, and only occasionally in the Duchy tier - and then only really for the first century or so. After that, there's almost always an inheritor somewhere.

IMO, any major revisions to it are pretty much time wasted that could be better spent on other things.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Perhaps a kingdom could go elective if the king has no heir, i mean that the strongest vassal could take the crown.

That could be coded with the new primary heir condition. Have to think about it after 1.5.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

That could be coded with the new primary heir condition. Have to think about it after 1.5.

As said in another thread, the kingdom simply dissolving is better. And U've even managed to get some people swayed more to that direction. Same with dukes.

Counties would probably have to work the same way.

What i wanted, which was the demesne for all levels to be divided by the 5 major advisors as well, then males over 16 (unless they were married to a female from one of the former), then females over 16 (unless they were married to a male from one of the former). This would lbe imo the best, but likely a CK2 request.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Well, kingdoms dissolving at lack of heir, while unhistorical (see HRE) is also 99.999999% likelyhood CK2 request. Kingdoms turning for Elective law when king is old and lacks heirs is something I can do in ten minutes tops.

 

[Riddermark]

hmm well maybe then every Duke should get a king title claim when the ruler dies heirless + elective law ?

 

[binTravkin]

On the related topic - Byakham, can you approve that now if I have less 'natural' successors than the successor panel can hold, the last successor is the 'generic' one?

I encountered it in my Duchy of Apulia game where the strongest (by elective laws) of my relatives was chosen as second and last succesor in one of the South Italian counties.
I scanned entire family tree and found no relation.

If so that's a good one - I once was a count when suddenly my youngest son inherited duchy and I was 'wtf! I didn't have any tie to that guy'.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Well, kingdoms dissolving at lack of heir, while unhistorical (see HRE) is also 99.999999% likelyhood CK2 request. Kingdoms turning for Elective law when king is old and lacks heirs is something I can do in ten minutes tops.

Them turning to elective law, the kind in CK atleast, is also unhistoric.

Kingdoms disvolving isn't unhsitroic, though it generally leads to civil war. I'd actually prefer that several claimants get kingdom tags (or duchies for indy dunchies that dissolve), but there is no way to remove those claims which would need to be done here.

 

[unmerged(29883)]

Exactly. Handing out several temporary kingdom claims would be fine...handing out several permanent ones for that situation defies reason.

 

[Riddermark]

Putting it nice and simple how many options actually are there?

1.All vassals break away whilst the country cousin remains with only his demense as kingdom territories + they get claim on the kingdom title + DoW ? Thats fairly reasonable civil war if you ask me
- however Im not entirely sure whether the other vassals would pledge to the new King?

2.Just change to elective law ? Ok thats fine but theres no violance here and besides the Kingdom would remain elective forever on isnt that right? and this would suck for sure anyway If this is to be the case maybe the country cousin which will rule the elective kingdom has to be quick to die - as the guys in the holy orders - they drop like flies

 

[Velasco]

When the line dies out, the kingdom turns to elective and the most powerful vassal inherits the demesne provinces of the last king, whilst holding on to his own vassals and demesne provinces. All the other vassals of the last King go independent with claim on the kingdom title. Perhaps event could trigger allowing the second strongest vassal to make war on the new elected King?

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Handing out claims != good because CK can't remove claims, except during wars, which is rare.

I think Riddermark's idea could work if several war commands were done as well.

 

[caknuck]

hmm well maybe then every Duke should get a king title claim when the ruler dies heirless + elective law ?

If it goes elective, then the #2 and #3 in the succession line should automatically get claims. This makes perfect sense, as the most powerful dukes should compete for power. The weaker dukes likely would sit idly by.

You wouldn't want the Duke of Krain to get claims to all of the HRE titles just because the Frankens died off, hmm?

 

[caknuck]

Kingdoms turning for Elective law when king is old and lacks heirs is something I can do in ten minutes tops.

Four suggestions if you do get around to this...

1. All vassals should take a huge loyalty hit (75% instead of the usual 50%, perhaps) to reflect the turmoil of the succession. The same should go for the citizenry of the new king's demense provinces (esp. the nobles).

2. Only the titles should pass the elected king/duke. Claims should not.

3. I'd suggest coding an event (or tweaking an existing event) to try to switch Kingdoms and Duchies with Elective Law back to one of the inheritance laws (with modifiers or restrictions to keep Iceland and Venice from being affected). New kings/dukes may want to establish their own dynasties.

4. An event could be triggered during the succession where the Church offers to back his ascent to the throne in exchange for a change of the religious law to Church Supremacy (and/or money). If the new king/duke declines, the church would excommunicate him.