Countries, countries, countries...(breakaway states, indep. colonies, correct names)

[unmerged(112615)]

I've looked but I haven't found any thread like it. If there's one I'll close this, but for the moment I'll just go ahead.

This entire idea started while playing HOI2. I was trying to liberate a nation and while scrolling through the list of nations that France could liberate I noticed that there was no Djibouti in the list. Later I was playing the Ethiopians/Italians and I noticed there was no Eritrea either. The idea that these countries in this era could've been liberated didn't seem so farfetched to me so I thought I'd do some more research into possible countries that could've existed during that era. In this early stage I only used Wikipedia/internet of course.

First I looked up the countries that were possible in HOI2 (assuming this is all of them, took out aliens, axis, allies and ARMA countries):

AFG - Afghanistan
ALB - Albania
ALG - Algeria
ANG - Angola
ARA - Arab Federation
ARG - Argentina
ARM - Armenia
AST - Australia
AUS - Austria
AZB - Azerbaijan

BEL - Belgium
BEN - Benin-Sahel
BHU - Bhutan
BLR - Byelorussia
BOL - Bolivia
BOS - Bosnia
BRA - Brazil
BRU - Brunei
BUL - Bulgaria
BUR - Burma

CAL - California
CAM - Cameroon
CAN - Canada
CGX - Guangxi Clique
CHC - Communist China
CHI - Nationalist China
CHL - Chile
CMB - Cambodia
COL - Colombia
CON - Congo
COS - Costa Rica
CRO - Croatia
CSA - Confederate States
CSX - Shanxi
CUB - Cuba
CXB - Xibei San Ma
CYN - Yunnan
CYP - Cyprus
CZE - Czechoslovakia

DDR - DDR
DEN - Denmark
DFR - FRG
DOM - Dominican Republic

EAF - East African Union
ECU - Ecuador
EGY - Egypt
ENG - United Kingdom
EQA - Equatorial Africa
EST - Estonia
ETH - Ethiopia
EUS - Euskadi

FIN - Finland
FLA - Flanders
FRA - France

GAB - Gabon
GEO - Georgia
GER - Germany
GLD - Gold Coast
GRE - Greece
GUA - Guatemala
GUI - Guinea
GUY - Guyana

HAI - Haiti
HOL - Netherlands
HON - Honduras
HUN - Hungary

ICL - Iceland
IDC - Indochina
IND - India
INO - Indonesia
IRE - Ireland
IRQ - Iraq
ISR - Israel
ITA - Italy

JAP - Japan
JOR - Jordan

KAZ - Kazakhstan
KOR - Korea
KUR - Kurdistan
KYG - Kyrgyzstan

LAO - Laos
LAT - Latvia
LBY - Libya
LEB - Lebanon
LIB - Liberia
LIT - Lithuania
LUX - Luxemburg

MAD - Madagascar
MAL - Union of Mali
MAN - Manchukuo
MEN - Mengkukuo
MEX - Mexico
MLY - Malaysia
MON - Mongolia
MOR - Morocco
MOZ - Mozambique
MTN - Montenegro

NAM - Namibia
NEP - Nepal
NIC - Nicaragua
NIG - Nigeria
NOR - Norway
NZL - New Zealand

OMN - Oman
OTT - Ottoman Empire

PAK - Pakistan
PAL - Palestine
PAN - Panama
PAR - Paraguay
PER - Persia
PHI - Philippines
POL - Poland
POR - Portugal
PRI - Primorsk
PRK - People's Republic of Korea
PRU - Peru

QUE - Quebec

RHO - Rhodesia
ROM - Romania
RSI - Italian Social Republic
RUS - Russia

SAF - South Africa
SAL - El Salvador
SAR - Sarawak
SAU - Saudi Arabia
SCA - Scandanavia
SCH - Switzerland
SCO - Scotland
SER - Serbia
SIA - Siam
SIB - Siberia
SIE - Sierra Leone
SIK - Sinkiang
SLO - Slovakia
SLV - Slovenia
SOM - Somalia
SOV - Soviet Union
SPA - Nationalist Spain
SPR - Republican Spain
SUD - Sudan
SWE - Sweden
SYR - Syria

TAJ - Tajikistan
TAN - Tannu Tuva
TEX - Texas
TIB - Tibet
TRA - Transural Republic
TRK - Turkmenistan
TUN - Tunisia
TUR - Turkey

UKR - Ukraine
URU - Uruguay
USA - USA
UZB - Uzbekistan

VEN - Venezuela
VIC - Vichy France
VIE - Vietnam

WLL - Wallonia

YEM - Yemen
YUG - Yugoslavia

Everyone is invited to pitch countries that might possibly have existed but I'll go ahead and name some of the countries I 'thought' up. I've sticked to some rules for this (for the majority):

-Country needs to be present on HOI2 (which probably means it'll be represented by one or more provinces in HOI3)
-Has independent roots in the nineteenth or the twentieth century (ex: Kingdom of Hawai'i and Djibouti).
-If this is not the case: a strong seccessionist movement throughout (ex: Flanders).
-Be able to field a division in a reasonable amount of time (which means it having about 5 IC or more i.e. no Monaco).

In terms of naming I used the following rules:
-Most used English spelling (not Mengkukuo but Mengjiang)
-No Republic of, etc. unless it's integral to it's identity.
-Use the name used first in case of colonization (Dahomy instead of Benin)

You don't have to follow these rules but they make sense, so why not?

Here goes:

*Djibouti: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Eritrea: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Hawaiʻi/Hawaii: annexed by US. Existed as sovereign state from 1795 to 1893. A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in US. 5 off-map IC.
*Western Australia: A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in Australia. 5 off-map IC.
*Alaska: A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in US. 5 off-map IC.
*Deseret: A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in US. 5 off-map IC.
*Tanzania: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Burundi: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Rwanda: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Uganda: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Newfoundland: was a sovereign nation but let Canada and UK control it. A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in UK. 5 off-map IC.
*Western Canada: A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in Canada. 5 off-map IC.

This is all I could think of right now in terms of new countries at the moment.

I do have a few suggestions for more correct country names than in HOI2:

USA -> United States (of America)
Benin-Sahel -> Dahomey
Byelorussia -> Belorussia
Union of Mali -> Mali
Mengkukuo -> Menjiang (most used spelling also way more hits at Google than Mengkukuo)

Again all I could think of at the moment.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

I agree with USA > United States.

Seeing 'USA' as a name in games tends to annoy me, mainly 'cus I hate such abbreviations. You might as well have 'UK' instead of United Kingdom.

Personally I tend to change 'USSR' to Soviet Union as well...

All I would say about countries - I'm not too bothered about obscure revolters, or former colonies that only became independent in the late 50s/early 60s - would be a greater emphasis on places that should be independent in HoI2's actual timeframe.

Generally speaking, P'dox tend to add some good revolters. All I ask is that they're consistent with names, they bother to add ministers for them all, and that all possible nations have proper flag and counter GFX. I hated seeing that about a third of revolters in HoI2 had either no counters or the wrong counters...

EDIT:

Oh, one important thing about names - I think FRA should be 'French Republic' and VIC should be 'French State' - these aren't opinions per se but of course the official, legal names of these states.

I don't really like the term 'Vichy' France, and it is certainly very historiographical as naming conventions go.

 

[unmerged(128273)]

Kashmir is missing from your list

 

[Striker475]

Seeing ministers for some liberate options - most obviously Flanders and Wallonia imo - would be good.

 

[Easy1]

Perhaps these links can help you.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_autonomist_and_secessionist_movements

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_countries_in_Europe_after_1815

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_autonomist_and_secessionist_movements

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_unrecognized_countries

 

[unmerged(132658)]

I think England and Wales should be added as seperate states from United Kingdom.

EGY - Egypt
ENG - United Kingdom
EQA - Equatorial Africa

So like in the HoI country list, ENG should be for England while United Kingdom should get a new abreviation like UKD or whatever. I don't think that will happen because PI will probably just use the same list from HoI2.

Other countries that should be included are;

Catalonia
Basque (Already included but with no ministers)
Galicia

And perhaps some of these historic states/regions;
Silesia
Brittany
Prussia
Sicily
Venice

 

[dannyboy2016]

*Djibouti: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Eritrea: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Hawaiʻi/Hawaii: annexed by US. Existed as sovereign state from 1795 to 1893. A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in US. 5 off-map IC.
*Western Australia: A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in Australia. 5 off-map IC.
*Alaska: A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in US. 5 off-map IC.
*Deseret: A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in US. 5 off-map IC.
*Tanzania: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Burundi: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Rwanda: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Uganda: just another decolonized country in Africa. No reason to exclude it. 5 off-map IC.
*Newfoundland: was a sovereign nation but let Canada and UK control it. A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in UK. 5 off-map IC.
*Western Canada: A breakaway state that might be created in case of massive dissent in Canada. 5 off-map IC.

Here are some of my suggestions

NORTH AMERICA:

New Afrika would be a reasonable revolter. The comintern supported independence for US Blacks during this time frame and the CPUSA grudgingly accepted this line. At the time there were over 10 million Blacks in the United States and the majority still lived in the Black Belt. Mod New Nations has a lot of ministers/leaders for this nation (as well a Deseret and a few other nations that you have mentioned).

New England
Puerto Rico
Greenland
Nunatsiavut

AFRICA:

Sahrawi should be possible.

A Boer State would be nice. Maybe one of the older Boer Republics could be recreated.

Zanzibar was decolonized in the 1960s and later joined with tanganyika to form Tanzania.

ASIA/PACIFIC:

Bangladesh or some form of Bengal state.

Papua New Guinea
Baluchistan
Buryatia

EUROPE:
A Czech Republic would be nice. if I can create a slovakia, then why not a Czech nation?
Bavaria
Crimea
Catalonia

 

[unmerged(82211)]

It would be cool if Paradox could enable any possible tag from AAA to ZZZ.
Specially modders would make a good use of it.


For the list above, I would add:

BEZ = Belize, a Centroamerican colony.
GCO = Gran Colombia = it could exist...
RGS = Rio-Grandense Republic, due the Revolution war from 1835-1845.
SAP = São Paulo, due the Constitutionalist Revolution in early 30's
USC = United States of Centroamerica = also could exist...

 

[Osprey22]

It would be cool if Paradox could enable any possible tag from AAA to ZZZ.
Specially modders would make a good use of it.


For the list above, I would add:

BEZ = Belize, a Centroamerican colony.
GCO = Gran Colombia = it could exist...
RGS = Rio-Grandense Republic, due the Revolution war from 1835-1845.
SAP = São Paulo, due the Constitutionalist Revolution in early 30's
USC = United States of Centroamerica = also could exist...

Sounds good.

 

[daemonofdecay]

I would love to see more nations that could exist, even if there was not much of a movement for them. However, such nations should have some built in negatives to refrence their lack of popular support.

Also what would really be lovely would be the ability to create 'divided' nations like Germany was post WW2. For instance if the Allies had half of Yugoslavia and the Comintern the other half you could have a North Yugoslavia and South Yugoslavia (or East/West, if geography dictates). I think an easy way around preventing the need to program in hundreds of duplicate ministers would be to have both nations share the same pool of ministers of the nation that they stand for (Yugoslavia in this example), and to prevent there being two nations with the same leaders if they both have the same (or very similiar government types) they should have an event to unit the two halves. Thus if the Soviet controlled half had a democratic revolution, the two states would (for a very short period) have the same ministers before the event fires and they are united.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

I think England and Wales should be added as seperate states from United Kingdom.

So like in the HoI country list, ENG should be for England while United Kingdom should get a new abreviation like UKD or whatever. I don't think that will happen because PI will probably just use the same list from HoI2.

I really don't see the use of adding things like this for the purposes of HoI3's timeframe. Sure, there are (and were) cultural independence movements within the British Isles, but politically they were virtual non-entities during the war years, and their effective military projection was zero.

I have no objection to the representation of such movements within the UK's political system (ie, parties - though this depends how many Paradox wish to include), but suggesting that Welsh or Scots partistans would be willing to fight British troops at anything near divisional level is absolutely absurd.

At best, all you had was a relatively small network of pro-Nazi spies - anything on a military level would best be represented by partisans, if at all.

Furthermore, this would likely bring about the collapse of the UK at the hands of a flawed AI. My main problem with this is that the only real argument for it is the 'what if?' scenario of Britain accepting peace terms and a pro-Nazi puppet government being set up. Had this been the case, it's still highly unlikely that the UK would have broken up completely; one must remember that Hitler still viewed Britain as a great imperial power and was proud of their empire and navy. I doubt he'd want to see it broken up, particularly if he'd been in a position to install a government which would be either allied with his or totally subservient to it.

I certainly agree with the likes of an independent Czech state, Prussia, Bavaria, Catalonia and a Basque state, however. These are all sensible and plausible states.

I wonder how they will handle the CSA... o

 

[wilcoxchar]

It would be cool if Paradox could enable any possible tag from AAA to ZZZ.
Specially modders would make a good use of it.

They have. The modding process for creating countries is much simpler with the EU3 engine. So if Paradox doesn't include the nations, you can make as many nations as you like.

 

[unmerged(112615)]

I doubt Nunsiavut would be a realistic country for that era. Sounds more like a recent endeavour. Also doubt Greenland's economy be strong enough to contribute anything. Iceland is balancing on the edge as is.

Some more:

Yucatan
Rio Grande

Also California has far too much cores in HOI2. Wasn't claimed at all. Only Alta California/Baja California. map

Cali was made so big as to have more effect on USA after secession or to make it a bit stronger. But I'd rather have more countries that can seceed and really change history. USA is still incredibly strong after CSA, Texas, Cali seceed.

 

[unmerged(134054)]

Ok, my two kopeiks)

1. Galicia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_(Central_Europe) ) as both independent (Ukrainian Nationalistic State) and puppet ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_Galicia ). As a separate part of Ukraine.

Difference between Ukrainian people in the Western historical part of the country (mostly under Poland) and the Eastern one was substantial and tracked its history since late 17th century.

2. For future mods (with WWI in them), there can also be
a) West Ukrainian National Republic(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Ukrainian_People's_Republic);
b) Ukrainian People's Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People's_Republic);
c) Their historical Union (present as Ukraine).

3. Międzymorze (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Międzymorze)

 

[unmerged(62251)]

Union of Mali -> Mali

1. It should be the Mali Federation.

2. Mali was formed only when Senegal withdrew in 1960 due to political disagreements.


Therefore, either put in the successor states, or just use the Mali Federation.

Mengkukuo -> Menjiang (most used spelling also way more hits at Google than Mengkukuo)

The name Mengjiang is a historical anarchronism. We should use either Wade-Giles or the Chinese Postal Map Romanization, not pinyin.


Which means Nanking, not Nanjing

 

[vota dc]

Sicily
Venice

Yes,I must confirm.Sicily for sure because USA nearly released Sicily as puppet shortly after the war.Venice could be independent,but red fear sticked Venice with Italy.
I should add Sardinia and Corsica.

 

[unmerged(62251)]

Papua New Guinea

Australia had too much interest in it to release it in the timeline of HoI.

Buryatia

Now THAT'S a good idea, supposing we give it massive resources (it was, after all, a major logging/mineral area) and a decent IC.

 

[unmerged(123225)]

Wasn't there some mod that added dozens of new countries in HoI2?

Other than the historical ones I'd like to see some political ones like Fascist Britain or Communist France.

 

[unmerged(62251)]

Other than the historical ones I'd like to see some political ones like Fascist Britain or Communist France.

Er.... isn't that Government?



Also, I suggest that we split this thread into the Americas, Europe, Africa, and Asia/Australia.

 

[unmerged(123225)]

Er.... isn't that Government?

For example if I'm Soviet Union and I took over mainland France and they refuse to surrender, you can form puppet Communist France in place.