Counter colonization run - tips

[Soulburger]

Looking for advice on how to handle aggro Spain/Portugal colonizers when running as a counter-colonizer...ROTW nation going full colonizing spree from the start. In this situation I'm playing as Madyas (Philippines) with a capital move to Duwamish to hit some achievements. Now I've played plenty of other counter-colonizer starts but this is the first that I've used the move capital option. Was planning to get into Mexico and/or Peru to take down those natives before gobbling up colonial nations as they form.

Problem is that Spain/Portugal has beaten me to both areas and have pretty much swallowed up everything. By the time I cleared the TI around 1540s Spain already had 50% of Mexico conquered. By 1570s they had 75% conquered. Currently it is 1612 and they have 90%. Portugal skipped over Brazil and went straight to Rio de la Plata which is currently almost fully formed.

Its not just that they have beat me to the punch that has me worried but also because Spain is emperor, curia controller, and just a general all-around pendejo. A couple years before the Age of Reformation ended they tagged me as the target of the crusades. Me?!? I'm just a happy-go-lucky Filipino republic building a trade empire. I mean you no harm bro!

So these two are the #2 & #3 great powers and are just gunning for me. I managed to survive one surprise DOW by Spain in the 1560s by defending the war goal in SA by blowing cash on mercs long ago to get a white peace. Since then I've been very cautious to not get next to them directly to hold off on any wars until I get a decent military setup going vs their colonies. I even had a couple of embarrassing save scumming because Portugal was declaring trade wars on me for just embargoing them or pirating in the Caribbean. They are just looking for any type of excuse to tag team on me. Since they locked me out of my initial new world targets I've been focusing on locking up the trade powers in Moluccas and Malacca. Was just about to square off against my last major power in Malacca when Spain got a colony setup in Australia next to me and declared a Holy War.

While not expecting to be victorious in the current war, I'm trying to figure out best ways to get these two worn down without getting them directly involved in later wars. Their manpower/military just completely outclasses me at the moment. I've got zero military bonuses in the NI and only have half of Quantity ideas filled out to address some of the manpower/forcelimit shortcomings. My AT is pathetic along with my generals. I could solo one of their big CNs but not all of them plus their overlords dumping stacks in the new world. AI will derp some but not at the same rate as my allies (VJ, Jaunpur, Ayutthaya, Banjar). If it was defending territory in Malaysia then I would be much more comfortable but it is a superiority CB and majority of the fighting is going to be centered in the Americas.

Long term questions though:

• Is there someplace in the UI that can track when the Crusade target goes away? Wiki says it expires in 30 years but I'm not sure exactly when it started.
• Is there a way for non Catholic to see Curia Controller/papal bulls/etc? I see that with new mechanics that Catholics can pick a papal bull which continues a crusade past the Age of Reformation? I'm trying to figure out how to avoid triggering this again.
• Is there any way to see if the Protestant league formed? Almost all of Germany is non-Catholic but there is no religious league at this time. It shows Catholic as the dominant faith. I was hoping that Spain would get tied up in the league war but instead looks like they have the empire locked up as there no internal princes capable of taking the mantle.
• Any tips on how Spain could lose the emperorship?
• Any particular Spanish or Portuguese missions to watch out for? I'm also trying to minimize the possible CBs available to them since they have so much superiority at this point. Any ways that I can see their active mission trees?

My ideas: Exploration/Expansion/Administrative/Quantity


Crusade vs Madyas

Great Powers

Religious Map of Europe

Map of Europe

Map of Americas

 

[Seaweed and Mayonnaise]

I play RNW natives a lot on VH so might be able to help. Somethings I learned:

-no point in using warscore to break their alliance. Theyll just re-ally again. I found taking gold and war reps is the best. Better to get long truces with them.

-try to declare on their CNs immediately after the truce is up. That way when Spain/Portugal do declare war on you (and they will very quickly) you can peace out the CNs separately and take much more land if you want. Also gives you more time to corethem before the next war (which will stop coring progress)

-much easier to beat them at sea then on land. They usually don’t defend their doomstack transports very well. Although a lot of micro to try and intercept their landings.

-the 2nd coastal battery building is OP in this regard. AI likes to make landings at the same provinces over and over again. Build one there and their armies will take 4-6 months to land. They don’t seem to notice or adjust. Also build at least the first coastal battery in one province at every sea tile you have. Prevents them from blockading you badly

-don’t ally anyone you can’t defend. If you rival both, you might be able to get France/GB if they also have both rivalled, although it’s rare.

-take quality and also focus on discipline. Spain and Portugal don’t have good discipline mid/late game so that’s how you beat them. Also the naval bonuses will guarantee you win naval battles.

-and unfortunately you have to build a lot forts to prevent the headache of chasing after 1k stacks carpet seiging you.

 

[Saat98]

The Ottoblob seems blobby. You should try to ally them. If you and Ottos rival Spain and/or Portugal, it should be easy. Boost your dip rep and maybe get a province near them (charter a trade company from Fars, maybe). If you do that, Spain or Portugal are unlikely to attack you ever again.

 

[Soulburger]

I play RNW natives a lot on VH so might be able to help. Somethings I learned:

-no point in using warscore to break their alliance. Theyll just re-ally again. I found taking gold and war reps is the best. Better to get long truces with them.

-try to declare on their CNs immediately after the truce is up. That way when Spain/Portugal do declare war on you (and they will very quickly) you can peace out the CNs separately and take much more land if you want. Also gives you more time to corethem before the next war (which will stop coring progress)

-much easier to beat them at sea then on land. They usually don’t defend their doomstack transports very well. Although a lot of micro to try and intercept their landings.

-the 2nd coastal battery building is OP in this regard. AI likes to make landings at the same provinces over and over again. Build one there and their armies will take 4-6 months to land. They don’t seem to notice or adjust. Also build at least the first coastal battery in one province at every sea tile you have. Prevents them from blockading you badly

-don’t ally anyone you can’t defend. If you rival both, you might be able to get France/GB if they also have both rivalled, although it’s rare.

-take quality and also focus on discipline. Spain and Portugal don’t have good discipline mid/late game so that’s how you beat them. Also the naval bonuses will guarantee you win naval battles.

-and unfortunately you have to build a lot forts to prevent the headache of chasing after 1k stacks carpet seiging you.

Thanks for the tips. I was on the same wavelength for many but a few I didn't even consider (coastal batteries, separate peaces).

--Agreed about not wasting warscore to break alliances...well especially in early campaign. I've had some limited success being the strong power tangling with both Portugal and Spain. Able to quickly peace one out with an alliance break, spend a couple of more years taking the fight to the main target. Once that war finishes up, I have the other one coming off truce cycle for a much easier solo fight. At that point you can sometime get them clearly separated that they never recover in time to re-ally.

--Separate peaces with the CNs?!? Did not know that was possible. Definitely will test that it out but agreed with your point that it is best to solo CNs whenever possible.

--Agreed with trying to fight off the invading fleets is the best option. That is the one benefit of my NI is they are so naval heavy. Just didn't have time to get my main fleet stationed on the Atlantic side.

--Never liked using a building slot and doling out the cash for coastal batteries but might test that out. Do AI troops actually take attrition from transports? And are much of the AI landings always on the nearest province to them? In my first war they were trying to land troops all over the place...Australia/SA/southern CA/Moluccas.

--All decent alliance options are all situated in Asia, any options situated close to Europe have too big of a distance penalty for me to consider. At this point was just looking for any allies with troop sizes to deter the initial DOW.

--Agreed that taking Quality is a really good choice for a colonizer. A little mix of naval benefits is nice but not really necessary with my NIs. Plus my biggest problem was not having enough troops/manpower, especially since I was straddling two major zones. Against the natives I can get by with a small stack but once the big boys jump in, its too tough to get my entire force shipped out from Malaysia.

--Yes, I had a few forts already setup: California and my capital were locked away and also had in the center of Columbia for long term goal to lock down troops moving between NA/SA. Unfortunately not enough to stop me from getting wrecked. Ended up dropping that campaign as they had already landed 60k troops and my navy was demolished trying to set up base in the Atlantic. Attrition around SA killed my fleet and completely demoralized the run. So been working through a 2nd campaign to see if I get a better setup.

 

[Soulburger]

The Ottoblob seems blobby. You should try to ally them. If you and Ottos rival Spain and/or Portugal, it should be easy. Boost your dip rep and maybe get a province near them (charter a trade company from Fars, maybe). If you do that, Spain or Portugal are unlikely to attack you ever again.

Yes, I had a diplomat parked there maxing out relations in the desperate hope to get something favorable when Spain DOWed. Had a hail mary hope that they might intervene as a great power but computer AI was smart and knew I was hopeless in this one.

 

[Seaweed and Mayonnaise]

--Separate peaces with the CNs?!? Did not know that was possible. Definitely will test that it out but agreed with your point that it is best to solo CNs whenever possible.

What I do is have at least one diplomat always in Spain/Portugal building spy network (usually both). Besides the study technology benefit, it always gives me an advance notice of when either is going to declare war on me. If I do get that notice, I immediately declare war on ~2 or 3 of their CNs. When the Iberians do declare war, the wars you started against their CN are treated as separate wars, so you can peace them out separately. The Iberians don't (cant?) call them back into their war on you either. Although the "relative strength of alliances" modifier does take into account the other wars youre in, so the CNs will be much more stubborn to sue for peace then they otherwise would be had the Iberians not declared war. Also make sure you peace out the CN's during your war with the Iberians and not before. If you peace them out before Spain/Portugal declare war on you, then they can be called into the war despite the truce timer and your coring progress will stop.

--Never liked using a building slot and doling out the cash for coastal batteries but might test that out. Do AI troops actually take attrition from transports? And are much of the AI landings always on the nearest province to them? In my first war they were trying to land troops all over the place...Australia/SA/southern CA/Moluccas.

I guess it might be a RNW thing maybe. They target their landings against me only in the same 5 provinces over and over again. But yeah, if their landings are quite varied in your game then its a a lot harder to justify spending the money on them like that. Although I still think that building at least one naval battery in major sea tiles is worth it as it really seems to deter the AI navy.

--All decent alliance options are all situated in Asia, any options situated close to Europe have too big of a distance penalty for me to consider. At this point was just looking for any allies with troop sizes to deter the initial DOW.

I always found them to be a complete liability and lose me war score. With the changes to force limit from colonial nations coming though, this might be alright. The Iberians should have significantly less troops so might get a bit more scared to DOW.

Agreed that taking Quality is a really good choice for a colonizer. A little mix of naval benefits is nice but not really necessary with my NIs. Plus my biggest problem was not having enough troops/manpower, especially since I was straddling two major zones. Against the natives I can get by with a small stack but once the big boys jump in, its too tough to get my entire force shipped out from Malaysia.

In that case I recommend offensive, unless you are doing VH then have to take quantity. Ive played around with several openers and found offensive to be the best for winning wars against the Iberians. Don't be lured by defensive. The morale bonus is not that important by the time you fight them, the economic bonuses are weak, the attrition bonus has negligible effect for the AI Iberians, and the policies are absolute crap for a counter-colonization game.

So been working through a 2nd campaign to see if I get a better setup.

Good luck!

 

[Soulburger]

What I do is have at least one diplomat always in Spain/Portugal building spy network (usually both). Besides the study technology benefit, it always gives me an advance notice of when either is going to declare war on me. If I do get that notice, I immediately declare war on ~2 or 3 of their CNs. When the Iberians do declare war, the wars you started against their CN are treated as separate wars, so you can peace them out separately. The Iberians don't (cant?) call them back into their war on you either. Although the "relative strength of alliances" modifier does take into account the other wars youre in, so the CNs will be much more stubborn to sue for peace then they otherwise would be had the Iberians not declared war. Also make sure you peace out the CN's during your war with the Iberians and not before. If you peace them out before Spain/Portugal declare war on you, then they can be called into the war despite the truce timer and your coring progress will stop.

Very nice! Are you still able to separate peace the colonies in situations where you were not able to start the initial separate war?

One of my goals was to minimize the CBs available to the overlord. AI won't DOW unless it has a valid CB. I believe that it can't use its CNs CB if there is a truce between me and the CN. But the overlord can DOW if they have their own CB which will automatically call in their CNs even though technically we are supposed to have a truce. Which is why I'm trying to pay attention with all the mission claims for the colonizers. Since my capital is in the new world then colonizers will not get the automatic colony CB for bordering me (same continent only, they will get the CB for my overseas provinces in SA or Australia). Unless they get Deus Vult or manage to fabricate a claim then I should be able to fly under the radar. (Or manage to call a crusade on me! I still don't know how I qualified...per the wiki that should only be possible with -50 relations with the pope.)

Anyways 2nd run is going better...been managing my institutions deving better and focused on just expanding in NA and Malaysia. Trying to get an early start in SA is just too much of a logistics pain to successfully defend.

This time around Spain is another powerhouse but must have been due in part to a very early PU over Portugal. There are zero Portuguese colonies left. So it has been a straight mano y mano colonizer rush. They have also allied a mega Austria but due to the distant penalty Spain can't call them in. Which is extremely nice considering it is usually the Iberian tag team in action. I will see about posting some screenshots.

Still running with my original idea group order: Exploration, Expansion, Administrative, Quantity, and then Naval. Yes, taking Naval not just for the LOLs but wanting to try out a government reform: Board of Admirals. Which selects my ruler based on my top admiral. The few natural advantages that I have is that I start as a republic and have some kickass naval NIs which includes +1s to fire, shock, and maneuver and that's before I double dip with naval ideas. Once I max out the monuments in Nan Madoll and Murud-Janjira then I should be sitting on 90+ navy tradition. Even in the 50 range, pre Naval ideas, I'm still rolling 3 star admirals. Excited to see what kind of ruler pips this will all generate once everything is setup.

 

[Soulburger]

Adding screenshot of Europe at 1594 with Spain/Austria tag team. Austria has both Bohemia and Hungary under PUs and Spain has Naples. And yes that is an AI Byzantium. Guessing that they forced that out of Ottos in the league war in the 1570s. There was still a ton of TI but they had +90 warscore on Ottos at one point.

Fortunately, I've been able to lock Spain out of Mexico. England was the first to colonize allowing me plenty of time to work on the natives. Spain did declare on Huastec with mission claims but I was able to quickly DOW and lock down their main targets. They did pick up a few other provinces from other co-belligerents but before they could core them declared on me with claims in the Philippines. It was rough but was able to merc up and defend Mexico territories while my navy was able to fight off any landing parties back in the original motherland. Was able to take their remaining territories plus cash. If I was able to rack up more WS I might have been able to get them to renounce their claims which would have left me 100% in the clear but decided that the cash was much more important.