Council Issues

[Leo_Boon]

I've come back to CKII after my monthly cycle with EUIV, I've picked up Conclave and gave it a whirl. Opinion is generally positive as with all Paradox DLC, but there are a couple of things I'd like to discuss a bit more specifically about the realm's council.

1. What is the advantage of having a council for the top liege? As far as I can tell, allowing the council to vote on wardec, banishing and imprisonment and so on is a strict negative as they have to be bribed and flattered or you can't do what you need to do. My issue is not that it's too hard or unrealistic or whatever, it's that it feels weird that one of the DLC features that presumably took a long time to develop and that is one of the selling points is a restriction on the player. In fact, it feels that it is a punishment, so that if I play well and keep my vassals in place I never have to deal with the council in the first place! It's a shame, because I like the idea of a ruling council that helps me administer the realm, but the way it's implemented seems it is primarily a restriction and not an aid. Why not make it so that you get bonuses if you can pass decisions to your council? Maybe you get a lessened opinion malus if you revoke a title through the council, or council members that agree to your wardec provide you with more levies, or some other small things, reasons that make me want to care about the council. Right now, having an empowered one feels too much like a hindrance. Yes, I know you get minor opinion bonuses when you increase council power, and yes, you get the realm peace and councillors not being able to join factions, and it's a start but it doesn't feel like a lot. I can see no reason to give the council the power to vote on title granting or banishment or whatever, unless I'm missing something.
And speaking of realm peace...

2. I like the idea of realm peace. I like the idea of a monarch that looks at their quarrelling vassals screams "Enough!" and tells them to sit in their place. Unfortunately, I don't think that's how realm peace works, because every time I enforce it, a whole lot of wars seem to be still going on within the realm: rebellions, revolts and "wars against the tyranny of...". I'm not talking about religious uprisings and the like, I'm talking about wars to revoke such and such county or war for blah's claim still happening. Maybe I'm missing something? Does realm peace just end wars between "normal" vassals, i.e. vassals with regular, non-temporary titles? I guess there's the possible exploit of enforcing realm peace as you are about to lose a civil war, but first it has to be approved by your council and secondly realm peace could just be available when you have no civil war going on involving you directly. Is it too much to ask that when I want realm peace I will have peace in ALL my realm?

Another couple quick points: it's my second time using viceroyalties, and now I find that a lot of the time I get the title back I have a rebellion on my hands from someone "trying to oust" the guy who had the viceroyalty. I don't think that used to happen the first time round, and now it's bloody annoying inheriting -67% wars against someone who isn't even alive and that I have to go and fix. Is it WAD?
Temporary titles haven't gotten any less annoying, mucking up the map and vassal count and flooding my notification bar with requests for marriage (it's even worse because I play as Muslim and each one of the buggers wants four wives!). I get that they might work better but I still dislike them.
What happened to the realm law that stopped vassals declaring war on each other? I think it was a scale from low to high authority and at the highest vassals couldn't declare war at all. Is it just me or is that gone?

 

[Burned Coffee]

It seems like there's a better balance of power in conclave IMHO

More law malleability, actual influence on lieges/vassal decisions. I don't consider that I am a pro player but I like that conclave actually makes you think about how are you going to pass a law, and if you're trying to pass a law is because you directly benefit from it, so I think bonuses would be a bit too much.

I've heard that Conclave actually makes the game easier for some, what can I tell you, I prefer that conclave adds a layer of interaction to things that before where a bit flat.

 

[Dr Gonzo]

I totally agree with OP on his first point. I never voluntarily empower my council. I haven't had any big blobbing games yet though so I guess I might want to do it later on for the vassal limit boost, but either way it's something I want to avoid if possible.

When it comes to realm peace the issue being talked about was present well before conclave (perhaps always). Medium crown authority would stop your vassals declaring claim wars etc. against each other but still didn't stop wars from plots, factions and vassals resisting tyranny. I do generally agree that it would be nice to have more control over this but it would be hard to do without messing up vassal relations.

The way revocations etc. work right now there isn't an option for a vassal to resist any other way than war. I think probably the only way to get true peace would be for the king's peace to stop vassal factions firing and vassals revoking from each other. The question then would be, should it apply to the top leige too?

 

[Leo_Boon]

It seems like there's a better balance of power in conclave IMHO

More law malleability, actual influence on lieges/vassal decisions. I don't consider that I am a pro player but I like that conclave actually makes you think about how are you going to pass a law, and if you're trying to pass a law is because you directly benefit from it, so I think bonuses would be a bit too much.

I've heard that Conclave actually makes the game easier for some, what can I tell you, I prefer that conclave adds a layer of interaction to things that before where a bit flat.

I'm not talking about the council voting on law changes and whatnot. I'm more specifically talking about the council voting on banishment, imprisonment, title grant and revoke and so on (the last tab of the law section). All of these seem to be put there as a strict negative. If you're weak and can't manage your vassals, they might force you to give them the right to vote on those things, which makes it harder to do the things that you want to do. Essentially, the big new feature of the DLC is a punishment and it's bad if you ever have to use it, which I think is weird. I wish there was more incentive to empower the council because, as it is, I see no reason to let them do anything other than the "I managed to play the game even with this arbitrary restricion tacked on" bragging rights.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

I'm not talking about the council voting on law changes and whatnot. I'm more specifically talking about the council voting on banishment, imprisonment, title grant and revoke and so on (the last tab of the law section). All of these seem to be put there as a strict negative. If you're weak and can't manage your vassals, they might force you to give them the right to vote on those things, which makes it harder to do the things that you want to do. Essentially, the big new feature of the DLC is a punishment and it's bad if you ever have to use it, which I think is weird. I wish there was more incentive to empower the council because, as it is, I see no reason to let them do anything other than the "I managed to play the game even with this arbitrary restricion tacked on" bragging rights.

They're there for vassals, not the liege. The vassals will try to decrease their liege's power on them while the liege will be doing the opposite.

Though in practice one can only adopt one of the five predefined stance, making the councillor experience pretty underwhelming. My opinions on matters like imprisonment, execution (and castration and blinding), and revocation can vary greatly for different people.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

1: Well, if your council has War Declaration enabled and is not Discontent, the councilors cannot join factions. I've used this feature to weasel my way out of a few bad situations.

2: The vassals have like 3 months to finish all their fighting before the Realm Peace takes effect.