Could we change the buff of the Grand Duchy government?

[The_Real_China_WU-Empire]

In EU4, the introduction of Grand Duchy is''Our region never had many kings, instead it is our dukes that have united and led the various peoples within our borders to greatness.''
It only give Lithuania a ''+100 Governing capacity'' bonus.

I don't see any buff could really match this Grand Duchy government introduction.
Could we change the bonus of Grand Duchy government?

I also don't understand why there are so many objections.
How could these opponents just ignore the government introduction which had been clearly written in this game?
If you played a government in this game, but its introduction doesn't reflect on it... so weird.

 

[cuendillar]

The government form is a bit of an outright debuff, especially as it locks Lithuania as a duchy and upgrading to kingdom would give the strictly stronger+200 Governing capacity, +1 diplomat and some monthly autonomy reduction.

 

[Sidolowka]

An easy enough change would be to have the Grand Duchy reform give +200 governing capacity, +1 diplomat, -5 years to switch national focus and -0.05 monthly autonomy so that while Lithuania's still technically a "Duchy", it would have all the benefits of a Kingdom.

Maybe throw in a +1 Accepted Culture or +1 Tolerance of Heretics as well if they need further adjustment?

 

[nobodyinparticular]

IMO Lithuania should be Kingdom rank with "Grand Duchy" as mostly flavor, instead granting +1 Max promoted cultures so Ryazanian (which is like 20% of their starting dev IIRC) is accepted at the start too.

They could also get some extra tolerance of heretics or religious unity from their government form, but you can get 100% religious unity right off the bat by granting "enforced interfaith dialog" to the burghers. Could maybe make this privilege granted from the start (like the Ottomans have with guaranteed dhimmi autonomy) so AI Lithuania will always be relatively stable wrt religious unity.

 

[st360]

Or maybe not every tag on earth should be overbuffed and players should expect some actual distinct challenges when playing a nation.

What the F is the point of governing capacity, tolerance of heretics and kingdom ranks if everyone is expected to have enough of everything for free? Then just give every nation on earth -5 unrest, -20% core creation cost +10% discipline and remove all mechanics from the game.

 

[Word_Smith]

Or maybe not every tag on earth should be overbuffed and players should expect some actual distinct challenges when playing a nation.

What the F is the point of governing capacity, tolerance of heretics and kingdom ranks if everyone is expected to have enough of each for free? Then just give every nation on earth -5 unrest, -20% core creation cost +10% discipline and remove all mechanics from the game.

To the modern EU4 player, the game isn't fun unless the map is only one colour :^)

 

[necro84]

What the F is the point of governing capacity, tolerance of heretics and kingdom ranks if everyone is expected to have enough of everything for free? Then just give every nation on earth -5 unrest, -20% core creation cost +10% discipline and remove all mechanics from the game.

There is something like this - you get -5 unrest, -25% CCR and +50% force limit, it's very easy difficulty

 

[Nostalgium]

I get the sentiment, but honestly, it's fine. Lithuania has two ways out of Duchy - one to Kingdom and one to Empire, via Commonwealth/Ruthenia respectively, and IIRC it's not even a locked govt reform, so it's a quick 50 and you can just reform out of it.

 

[MachopPower69]

Not a necessary buff, but Lithuania wasn't a centralised nation as it was split into many vassal states like France. Kiev, and the other Ruthenian nations were autonomous until somewhere in the 15th century became integrated parts of the GD of Lithuania

Plus, isn't the mission tree strong enough? RoU's on Poland, Muscovy and Bohemia not enough for your consideration?

 

[adin85]

Lithuania have better Mission Tree than Poland.

 

[EarlKonrad]

I don't get where all of the negative sentiment is coming from. Lithuania hasn't been touched for more than half a decade now (not counting the Polish patch because that thing was a joke).

Lithuania (and Poland to some extend) do show its age. While it gets a somewhat reasonable focus tree, most of its aspects are archaic: its territory is extremely poor and the geography is poor; it retains all the rebel spawn events; its ideas are comparatively weak for being one of the most important nations in Europe at the time; its unique government is a bandaid more than anything else; it a terrible subject for Poland.

So, to sum up, while all of its neighbours have had plenty of updates over the years, Poland and Lithuania struggle to be relevant, mostly in the hands of the AI. They (specially Lithuania) has been powercreeped so much so that they tend to either die to Russia or Ottomans. Lithuania also suffers from having a crapton of rebel spawns from events while Poland gets absurd debuffs for just existing (both of which are remnants of the initial game design for EU 4 and don't match player's expectation nowadays).

 

[Jihem]

Lithuania also suffers from having a crapton of rebel spawns from events while Poland gets absurd debuffs for just existing (both of which are remnants of the initial game design for EU 4 and don't match player's expectation nowadays).

Being a player since January 2020 only, I don't quite understand what you mean

 

[st360]

its territory is extremely poor and the geography is poor; it retains all the rebel spawn events;

The developers got the inspiration for Lithuania in EU 4 based on a real life country called Lithuania, so the geography cant really be changed.

it a terrible subject for Poland.

Its an amazing subject for Poland. I cant think of a single subject in the game more powerful than Lithuania, especially since Austria can fail its free PU for Hungary.

They (specially Lithuania) has been powercreeped so much so that they tend to either die to Russia or Ottomans.

1) The Commonwealth regularly destroys Russia in games. 2) The country did get defeated in history. 3) If Russia and Ottomans are too powerful then re tune Russia and Ottomans.

Lithuania also suffers from having a crapton of rebel spawns from events while Poland gets absurd debuffs for just existing

They hardly have any rebel spawns or bad events. This sounds like a overexageration or a player who puts himself in a position of 0 manpower and gets outraged at a single 18k rebel spawn, or doesn't realize its subject has had +10 war exhaustion for the last 5 years.

(both of which are remnants of the initial game design for EU 4 and don't match player's expectation nowadays).

It looks like you're the one who is wrong about player expectations.

 

[necro84]

Its an amazing subject for Poland. I cant think of a single subject in the game more powerful than Lithuania, especially since Austria can fail its free PU for Hungary.

Burgundy can be better, also France if you play as England and win the war. But you are right - Lithuania is very strong. Weaker economy but big force limit because of many provinces and you can use subsidies to help them build more units

 

[st360]

Burgundy can be better, also France if you play as England and win the war. But you are right - Lithuania is very strong. Weaker economy but big force limit because of many provinces and you can use subsidies to help them build more units

One of Lithuania's big strengths is you get it for free, right at the start, and its guaranteed.

 

[The_Real_China_WU-Empire]

Or maybe not every tag on earth should be overbuffed and players should expect some actual distinct challenges when playing a nation.

What the F is the point of governing capacity, tolerance of heretics and kingdom ranks if everyone is expected to have enough of everything for free? Then just give every nation on earth -5 unrest, -20% core creation cost +10% discipline and remove all mechanics from the game.

You didn't understand what I said at all.

I don't care about the TAG of Lithuania country, what I want is that the BUFF of the Grand Duchy government should match its introduction.
There is no need to STRENGTH the Grand Duchy government, CHANGE it is enough.

 

[Nostalgium]

You didn't understand what I said at all.

I don't care about the TAG of Lithuania country, what I want is that the BUFF of the Grand Duchy government should match its introduction.
There is no need to STRENGTH the Grand Duchy government, CHANGE it is enough.

The Grand Duchy govt. type is only used for Lithuania, so a change to the government type is in fact a change to the tag.

 

[Republic of Mercury]

So, which part of the description isn't being reflected by the effects?

The description is pretty much "Lithuania didn't have many kings. It was primarily led by dukes."

And the effects are: You cannot upgrade to kingdom rank (Matches with the first part), but you can get bigger than an ordinary duchy (Matches the second part.)

What's missing?

 

[The_Real_China_WU-Empire]

The Grand Duchy govt. type is only used for Lithuania, so a change to the government type is in fact a change to the tag.

Government is government. TAG is TAG.

 

[The_Real_China_WU-Empire]

You didn't understand what I said at all.

I don't care about the TAG of Lithuania country, what I want is that the BUFF of the Grand Duchy government should match its introduction.
There is no need to STRENGTH the Grand Duchy government, CHANGE it is enough.

our dukes that 'have united' and 'led' the 'various peoples' within our borders to greatness

The latter half of the sentence that you didn't mention.

According to this introduction,
The Grand Duchy government could be more inclusive of different nationalities and less rebellious.

have united various peoples →more inclusive of different nationalities
have led various peoples → less rebellious

But this is just my understanding, you can of course interpret it differently.