Could really use some help: I'm terrible at fighting wars

[Davewaveman]

Ladies and gentlemen,

I could really use your advice here. I've read a lot on game mechanics and I think I got a pretty good idea of the game as a whole, but there is one aspect I'm terrible at; fighting wars. I think I just don't understand how to manage and control my armies properly.

Allow me to explain; I've been restarting over and over again as Poland. And every time, I get myself in a situation I can't win anymore. I've had the following happen to me:

• See my armies get killed by the Teutonic Order because I keep a small stack seiging to save my manpower, and they succeed in attacking it earlier before I can send my bigger stack in from the adjacent province.
• Declare against Muscovy, and just see my morale melt against them over and over again.
• Declare against Muscovy with superior numbers, then watch in horror as Lithuania sends of their 20k stack... and gets stackwiped.
• Get into a fight with the Ottomans with Austria (holding a PU over Hungary) as my ally, then see the Ottomans carpet seige them, and have them peace out before I can do something about it.
• Get into a fight with the Ottomans, have them attack into highlands (no mountains nearby) with a river crossing, and get crushed even if I have way more men. They had a 3-star general. I've no idea how I could've done that better.
• And, in general, see fights get started, and they never finish before the enemy can send in all their stacks. It's enormously frustrating to seemingly see their morale deplezted but they just keep fighting until their blobs arrive. And when they do, they seem to get way more morale back then when I reinforce. I really don't get it.

My usual wars go like this: I declare or get declared upon, and the enemy just swarms my lands (mostly Lithuania) or my ally. And I really don't know how I can stop them. If I attack my seiged forts I get my defender bonus, but then they still blob onto me. If I do nothing, they simply take out my allies which then promptly peace out. I just don't know what to do anymore.

I try to make sure I stay on top of things when it comes to military tech. I ensure I'm always higher or equal to my enemies on that front.

So please, explain to me how you all go about fighting wars practically. How do you get stackwipes? How do you take the AI on? And how do you deal with friendly AI? Do you set their behaviour in the subject window? Do you set objectives? Do you let them attach?

What's the best way to bait AI or win wars? How should I try to fight the AI? What should my general focus be? Could I have ever defeated the famed 3-star Ottoman general? And how do you decide when to declare a war? When I ignored the Ottomans, they simply exploded.

And why does reinforcing my army seem to barely do anything to morale, but when the AI does it, they get half their bar back?

I've honestly been crushed so many times it's becoming slightly disheartening. That's why I'd like some advice, if possible. Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

[Chiro]

Do you use generals?

 

[Dominion]

Screenshots would be fun, but my first guess is always you forgot to hire an actual military advisor (morale/discipline) followed by not filling CW/getting outflanked, not knowing about unit pips, avoiding loans/mercs and hoping manpower will suffice, never consolidating, using bad generals, not watching prestige, spreading out armies to have them get picked up one by one, not knowing about NIs (CA, morale, Discipline, ...) or traits, etc.etc.etc.

The list is rather long. Where do you wanna start?

Maybe the wiki article would be a good starting point.

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Land_warfare

 

[Davewaveman]

Thanks for the initial interest, I've already taken an elaborate look at the wiki page before, but thank you for the suggestion nonetheless. Well, I guess I could start with adressing what you mentioned, maybe that'll cut down the options a little bit:

• I keep military advisors, preferring +morale or +discipline if possible.
• I always engage battles if my stack has a general, never without one (though if my stacks get caught then they are ofcourse without a general).
• My generals tend to be pretty bad, but I don't think I can improve them if my army tradition is too low? Even when my AT gets higher I still tend to end up with really rubbish one-stars.
• If I have the financial ability, I prefer to replace or add to my army with mercenaries. I only buy merc infantry though, never cavalry or artillery.
• I try to fill up to CW, so that's 20 at the start if I recall correctly?
• I try to keep up to 4 cavalry in an army so they can use their flanking bonus, but otherwise stack infantry (and later artillery to shoot from the back row, either equal to the number of infantry, or slightly lower)
• I've not really been playing too much to the NIs of Poland, I must admit. Namely, I know I could probably get really powerful cavalry with them, but I barely use cavalry. I'm contemplating picking aristocratic ideas for my next game, instead of quantity (that I usually go for).
• I'm not sure what CA stands for? Combat Ability? Does that have sources other than ideas, tech and decisions?
• I try to keep prestige at decent levels, but I do sometimes have to spend it on other things as well. I do generally think I don't ever keep negative prestige though.
• I'm not entirely sure I understand loans. I do get worried about going negative and seeing my country take autoloans because I'm not sure how I can pay them off and not go bankrupt.
• I generally pay too little attention to unit pips: I don't know how to estimate an enemy's strength by keeping that in mind, and I'm also nto sure what I should go for. Usually, I try to pick offensive morale pips if I can choose between unit types.
• I'm not sure I consolidate enough. Usually I try to wait until my army has reinforced.
• I'm not entirely sure how to handle attrition. I try to detach enough units to seige and then move the rest out to an adjacent occupied province so they at least don't take attrition. I do tend to keep my army in a large blob when moving, meaning I sometimes lose men simply because I move my united stack around (for example into Lithuania or Russia). Should I be doing that?

I think my biggest problem is that I don't know how to handle the AI: how should I maneuver, and what exactly should my goals be in a war? To take out the other army? Or to avoid them and seige? If I try the latter I usually get myself stuck in bad situations, possibly because I'm playing too offensively?

 

[Sfan]

Dominion is as often prety harsh, but right. I add that you probably play in speed 5 and/or don't pause enough. Saving manpower to siege is nice, but keep a reinforcing stack one province away, and reinforce. Your sieging stack can't get wiped if you play in speed 2 during wars or pause every day or so, and move to reinforce as soon as the enemy starts moving to engage you.

Screenshots would help. As Poland, you should have a wonderful military. You have tons of bonuses, so you should not be in a situation where your troops lose battles when they outnumber the ennemy unless you're behind in tech, you don't take ideas or your composition is atrocious.

 

[Dominion]

• I always engage battles if my stack has a general, never without one (though if my stacks get caught then they are ofcourse without a general).

Your stacks can't get caught without a general.
You mention losing wars against Teutonic order and Muscovy. That early into the game your whole force limit is divided into 2stacks at best.

• My generals tend to be pretty bad, but I don't think I can improve them if my army tradition is too low? Even when my AT gets higher I still tend to end up with really rubbish one-stars.

That's not possible. When in doubt, grab the estates general or roll a few more times.
Remember that stars are irrelevant. What you want is shock damage, fire damage, siege, maneuver in that order with maneuver being almost worthless unless you know how to maneuver.

• I try to fill up to CW, so that's 20 at the start if I recall correctly?

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Land_warfare#Combat_width

• I try to keep up to 4 cavalry in an army so they can use their flanking bonus, but otherwise stack infantry (and later artillery to shoot from the back row, either equal to the number of infantry, or slightly lower)

Cannons are pretty much worthless pre-16
Having 2 cannons at tech 7 is already excessive for most nations.

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Technology#Military_technologies

I've not really been playing too much to the NIs of Poland, I must admit. Namely, I know I could probably get really powerful cavalry with them, but I barely use cavalry. I'm contemplating picking aristocratic ideas for my next game, instead of quantity (that I usually go for).

Pick defensive next time.

I think my biggest problem is that I don't know how to handle the AI: how should I maneuver, and what exactly should my goals be in a war? To take out the other army? Or to avoid them and seige? If I try the latter I usually get myself stuck in bad situations, possibly because I'm playing too offensively?

Win an initial fight, forcing them to retreat. Grab a siege, finish it, rinse and repeat.
Basic pointer. Later on it gets a bit more difficult than that.

 

[Sfan]

Well if you start with Quantity, that's a first at why you consistently lose battles. Quantity gives you a big, bad army so long as you fill the FL, and a bad army if you don't fill it. Get Defensive or Offensive, or Quality. Don't get aristocratic either, its main interest is the +1 siege pip which is mostly useful to WC.

 

[Davewaveman]

Thanks for all the advice, to the both of you. I'll give some of the things you suggested a try (and take screenshots).

 

[PhoenixG]

• See my armies get killed by the Teutonic Order because I keep a small stack seiging to save my manpower, and they succeed in attacking it earlier before I can send my bigger stack in from the adjacent province.

In my feeling if that is the case, you just play too fast and didn't pay attention to it.

• Declare against Muscovy, and just see my morale melt against them over and over again.
• Declare against Muscovy with superior numbers, then watch in horror as Lithuania sends of their 20k stack... and gets stackwiped.

What was your tech compare to Muscovy and what were yours and his idea group? These are in most of the case that is the cause for melting morale.
Also if you have third rome dlc, Muscovy also has streltsy, which are special inf with 10% fire damage. Although early game it wouldn't make much difference.

• Get into a fight with the Ottomans, have them attack into highlands (no mountains nearby) with a river crossing, and get crushed even if I have way more men. They had a 3-star general. I've no idea how I could've done that better.

The 3-star general is most likely spawned through event. Besides that Ottomans has better units (one more pip) than west/east europe. So even without the 3-star general you'll get crushed with even numbers unless you get some miracle dice rolls.

So please, explain to me how you all go about fighting wars practically. How do you get stackwipes? How do you take the AI on? And how do you deal with friendly AI? Do you set their behaviour in the subject window? Do you set objectives? Do you let them attach?

Stackwipes happen if you remove all his morale in the first 12 days of the battle or you fight on a location where the enemy can't retreat. Early game is a bit hard to do it, unless you have some nice starting national ideas or you're playing a horde.

What's the best way to bait AI or win wars? How should I try to fight the AI? What should my general focus be? Could I have ever defeated the famed 3-star Ottoman general? And how do you decide when to declare a war? When I ignored the Ottomans, they simply exploded.

You just got bad luck he got a 3 star general. Even his starting leader is only 2 star. imo the best opportunity to attack Ottoman is when he's busy with Mamluks. Since all his army is in Egypt, given you the time to hold the balkans.

And why does reinforcing my army seem to barely do anything to morale, but when the AI does it, they get half their bar back?

How big is your reinforcing army? If you reinforce with small stacks at the time it does barely anything. Reinforce as one big stack when possible. Also what is the max morale of both of you? If you do reinforce with big stacks, the difference in max morale is the problem.

 

[HydroAC]

There are two helpful EU4 guides on combat mechanics on YouTube by Reman's Paradox. #1 is basics, and #2 is more advanced concepts. Both are worth a look.

 

[I_am_Nemo]

It might be a good idea to play as somebody other than Poland - Ottomans themselves would be my recommendation - but a nation that has a lot of smaller, weaker opponents around. That gives you a chance to get a feel for how war works without having a real chance to lose the war.

Stackwipes happen if you remove all his morale in the first 12 days of the battle or you fight on a location where the enemy can't retreat. Early game is a bit hard to do it, unless you have some nice starting national ideas or you're playing a horde.

You also have to have 2x their numbers once all their morale is gone; otherwise they just shatter retreat anyway. Makes for some frustrating fights where you're just chasing a stack around and it just keeps shattered retreating.

 

[AlknicTeos]

I almost always choose quantity first, and don't have problems at fighting ... only play sp

 

[Sfan]

Who do you play as and who do you attack? I can assure you that nothing is more frustrating that starting Quantity with a country without any military idea, and getting destroyed by a major who chose Defensive/Offensive even if you outnumber them 2 to 1. And that can happen.

 

[AlknicTeos]

I like to play european majors. Muscovy, France, Austria, Ottoman Empire or some minors like holland or brandenburg. And I fight in first line for my culture grp. The only real beast to fight is against a big france with their high morale, when the time has unlocked their 20% morale boost.

 

[Sfan]

Well you play countries who all have Military bonuses in their national ideas, while most minors don't have any. That compensates for Quantity first.

 

[AlknicTeos]

it takes ages until the NI kick in ( for most nations) , and when, then you are a superpower without any real dangers anymore. I drill very much and get army professinoal asap to high lvls. I hardly use mercs. Better said, no times.
Quantity increases your power level at begin very strongly. I also decline call of arms most times

 

[DarkBlue]

Well I started a game as PLC recently. I would say that at first most of your neighbours including Teutonic Order, Ottoman & Muscovy all have better army than you do since your tradition sucks. Poland shines at the mid-game, when you complete Polish NI you will get a lot of military bonus. At the same time cavalry would be powerful, allowing you to melt enemies when used properly. Austria sucks at military too, but that's a country that wins by diplomacy and number (Emperor bonus), so don't expect its troops can face the Ottomans head-on.

As a general advice, remember to check the terrain to find favorable fighting grounds. Also, if you are fighting some strong enemies like Russia/Ottomans, make sure you have local superiority (i.e. wait for their armies to spread out), so that you can hit them harder with lower causality. For Russians, they are the master of counter-offense but have terrible economy until dominating the east, so try not going too deep into the Russian land before killing enough Russians. Instead, fight them mainly on your own soil first, then they are the ones that suffers attrition and you can replenish fast enough to "hit-and-run". You might want to occupy Novgorod & Moscow afterwards or at the very beginning of the war if their men are busy elsewhere, that would cripple their economy and harm their ability to mer up.

 

[Davewaveman]

Alright, so I've been playinga bit in a non-Ironman game where Hungary is allied with the Teutonic Order and Livonian Order. Here's an image of some of my attempts:

https://imgur.com/a/Rna21

I've tried to avoid getting caught by the Hungarian armies, which have a 2-star 4 shock general. I've attempted to seperate their armies, but they've been sticking very close to each other, and I don't want to get stuck ina fight where they'll just reinforce, any idea how to play the AI to seperate?

Meanwhile, TO and LO have been seiging Lithuania a bit too much for my liking. It was causing the Lithuanians a lot of problems with rebel stacks. However, I was worried that if I didn't keep my stacks close to each other, the AI would just pick them off one by one. I also have all ym subjects set to attach to me. Clearly my general strategy wasn't the best here, this war was too costly for what it should have been. Some advice would be welcome.

I also made a second attempt (don't have screenshots from that), where I focused on Hungary first and managed to take their two northern forts, and their capital province (this was before they seiged too much in the Moldavia area). My goal was to get them to peace out as soon as possible, and take their fort province along with Holst (or whatever that province with the gold mine is called). I couldn't get them to give that up though, because the length of war malus was preventing it. The Hungarians then send all their stacks to capture their province again. Should I have attempted to keep hold of those areas, risking a very unfavourable fight, or should I have retreated? Hungary would quickly seige their provinces back in that case, and I would have wasted a lot of manpower on attrition from seiges for nothing.

 

[Dominion]

I feel like you vastly overestimate attrition in comparison to absolutely everything else.

 

[Davewaveman]

I'm sorry, but what do you mean exactly? That it's not as big an issue to lose manpower to attrition as I think it is?