COTs,merchants and Historical COT modifier.

[EUnderhill]

From the link provided by Ambassador:
Very short description but significative.

Yes they vanish, but it is very easy to have a monopoly without real competition (150-200 ducats) when you own them (almost a single one in NA and such CoTs are thus very lucrative - 500-800 ducats per year for 20 years).



To EUnderhill: you mean Lorient (not L'Orient).

According to the link provided, the capitalized form was the one used in the period OR refers just to the docks, I'm not really sure. But I don't think that the spelling will change the numbers or cost of merchants sent there or the distribution of provinces that trade there, so no more than a token argument on my part. You do agree that they would be in the same province, right?

 

[unmerged(40707)]

SO?, have you tested that it would prevent a french existance. I have and France does historically fine, actually a COT in France gives them superpower status, far TOOOO early in the game.

As renaud vibien said, that's why it could be a good idea to keep CoT in Lyon for a while, have an event to move it to Paris (can't say for the date neither) and have a province related event to move it to Paris if France lose Lyonnais in the meantime.

France is a superpower when reunified but should suffer bad events to be more focused on internal affairs and not outside (like China, to some extent).

 

[unmerged(40707)]

You do agree that they would be in the same province, right?

Yes, according to EU2 map and the port of Morbihan, it seems to be here.

And you're right about the ancient spelling (that's why I added the smiley, just to provide the link).

 

[EUnderhill]

Yes, according to EU2 map and the port of Morbihan, it seems to be here.

And you're right about the ancient spelling (that's why I added the smiley, just to provide the link).

Thanks for providing the link to that which was my quickie - I'm being lazy and not bothering with hardcopy - source in the first place LOL - Thanks for confirming that which I thought I already knew.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

Thanks Yoda, nothing to add, except that a colonial CoT might be worth much more than 500-800, at least in the last century of the game. Just reach high trade level and many refineries (and accordingly trade-friendly DP¨sliders), and you'll get 150% TE, with an awful lot of provinces trading in one CoT, where you easily can keep a monopoly (even 100%).

 

[Toio]

Book from Cambridge press
title : the renaissance 1493 -1520
pages 312-313

I know many modders have this book as they have stated this book before:

well it says

..........................

The great trading centre in Lyons was established in 1420 by Charles VII, it got very big by 1489 and continued to expand until 1567. Lyon had 4 fairs per year from 1489.
Lyon, due to its navigable waterways, was a halting-place on the routes linking the northen countries to the med.

After the 100YW the first bank in france appeared in Lyon by the Medici family.
other bankers followed like the Capponi, Gadagnes and Bonvisi as well as german bankers from Nurnberg and Augsburg.

the final point says,
These companies, had their headquarters in Lyons, they multiplied their branches in the main cities of France, especially Paris, which was a subordinate to Lyons.

.....................

We cannot have Paris COT, if Lyon province is French.
we must leave the COT in Lyon and only move it after 1480 if France does not own Lyons, else it should remain there until at least 1567.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

We cannot have Paris COT, if Lyon province is French.
we must leave the COT in Lyon and only move it after 1480 if France does not own Lyons, else it should remain there until at least 1567.

Fair enough! Thanks for the date.

 

[sabular]

One minor point. If it moves to Paris in 1567 it arrives there just in time to shrink the newly formed dutch CoT in holland, which forms around the same time

 

[Twoflower]

One minor point. If it moves to Paris in 1567 it arrives there just in time to shrink the newly formed dutch CoT in holland, which forms around the same time

He said "until at least 1567". 1567 was only when Lyon's wealth and trade volume stopped to expand, which does not mean that it started to decline, let alone suddenly entirely lost its importance at that point.
IMO it would make sense to move the CoT during Louis XIV's reign, e.g. by the events for Colbert's mercantilistic policies. That, coincidentally, is also the time when Amsterdam should begin to lose importance.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

He said "until at least 1567". 1567 was only when Lyon's wealth and trade volume stopped to expand, which does not mean that it started to decline, let alone suddenly entirely lost its importance at that point.
IMO it would make sense to move the CoT during Louis XIV's reign, e.g. by the events for Colbert's mercantilistic policies. That, coincidentally, is also the time when Amsterdam should begin to lose importance.

Yes, it makes sense. Direct consequence of French centralization.

 

[sabular]

He said "until at least 1567". 1567 was only when Lyon's wealth and trade volume stopped to expand, which does not mean that it started to decline, let alone suddenly entirely lost its importance at that point.
IMO it would make sense to move the CoT during Louis XIV's reign, e.g. by the events for Colbert's mercantilistic policies. That, coincidentally, is also the time when Amsterdam should begin to lose importance.

Sounds reasonably to me

 

[Toio]

SO , what are we to do now , since my lyon and marseille events are scrapped?

1, Not move the COT from Lyon to paris , when the capital moves there?

2. Move it only if FRA does not own Lyons by 1480?

3. if it goes to paris , move it when the amsterdam COT forms?


well???

 

[sabular]

SO , what are we to do now , since my lyon and marseille events are scrapped?

1, Not move the COT from Lyon to paris , when the capital moves there?

2. Move it only if FRA does not own Lyons by 1480?

3. if it goes to paris , move it when the amsterdam COT forms?


well???

If I understood correctly

1 yes
2 yes, but if that did not happen (as it shouldn't in most games) it will move there eventually with the centralization/mercantilist reforms of colbert
3 but to where? I think this is hard to script realistically, and not necessary.

 

[unmerged(5386)]

What I propose :
1) COT in Geneva at start
2) When Charles VII's capital move from Bourges to Paris, the COT is moved from Geneva to Lyon, historically it was in 1436 (The 1420 decision had no real impact before peace witth Burgundy). An alternative darte for this move is 1489.
3) The COT is moved from Lyon to Paris. whith Richelieu in 1629.

 

[Toio]

best in my opinion is

remove the command for lyon cot to go to Paris

and

give Paris a COT in 1669 when Jean-Baptiste colbert started his merchants reforms which led to the french - dutch wars of 1672.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

best in my opinion is

remove the command for lyon cot to go to Paris

and

give Paris a COT in 1669 when Jean-Baptiste colbert started his merchants reforms which led to the french - dutch wars of 1672.

'means two CoTs for France in 1669 onwards ? If France is to get two CoTs, I'd put them in Nantes and Marseille as I said, and not one in Paris and one in Lyon/Marseille/other.

 

[Toio]

'means two CoTs for France in 1669 onwards ? If France is to get two CoTs, I'd put them in Nantes and Marseille as I said, and not one in Paris and one in Lyon/Marseille/other.

my error, meant move the lyon cot to paris in 1669.

which would still give france 1 cot only

ty

 

[joriandrake]

... ideally it's when Venice's CoT closes ; whether it's in Wien or Budapest depends only on how they feel it, since those lands are jointed...

What if not?
I want the possibility of a free, independent hungary later(as my 1st suggestion of CoT was for an earlier date), that has a CoT and latin tech.
Latin, what will be possible to have on forever and never changes back to 'orthodox' again.

Before WW1 Hungary and Poland were both still thought of as 'western Nations' (Well, Poland as long as it existed then) , and as I understand 'latin' and 'orthodox' tech-s want to reflect eastern and western nationtechs (also I dislike these names becouse of relation to faithnames, I dislike the idea of an Orthodox Hungary)

 

[unmerged(45766)]

What if not?
I want the possibility of a free, independent hungary later(as my 1st suggestion of CoT was for an earlier date), that has a CoT and latin tech.
Latin, what will be possible to have on forever and never changes back to 'orthodox' again.

Before WW1 Hungary and Poland were both still thought of as 'western Nations' (Well, Poland as long as it existed then) , and as I understand 'latin' and 'orthodox' tech-s want to reflect eastern and western nationtechs (also I dislike these names becouse of relation to faithnames, I dislike the idea of an Orthodox Hungary)

But Hungary was in effect merged with Austria. In EU2, it means Austria inherits Hungary. This is how the hold on Hungary by the Habsburgs is depicted.

Should Hungary and the Habsburgs have evolved separately, would any one of them have the might sufficient to wrestle the control of regional trade from Venice's hands ? I'm not sure they would have, and so in this situation I believe Venice should keep its CoT (by default).

 

[Norrefeldt]

Jorian, I agree the tech groups are badly named, they should be named techgroup1, techgroup2 etc. But frankly Hungary didn't keep up with nations in Italy, and with Holland, England or France in technology in the latter part of the game. As an historical mod, history is our guidline.

(You shouldn't put national pride in it, or a notion of being a "western nation" it's not about that. "Western nations" was something invented in the 20th century, and had no meaing before that. Then it was mainly about religion.)