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Wulf145

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I think it is a great idea, but dont take it too far, keep it simple and it would be pretty in line with their focus on rewarding battle plans and less micro. Just get rid of (or reduce) the arbitrary bonus % number for battle plans and replace it with one which will depend on corps/army assets, because a good plan will not help you much if you dont have adequate equipment to support it. If you plan ahead your attack your troops will feel the full support, if they act independently they can't rely much on support, same if they get on the defense suddenly. With defense, if you draw a defensive line with "Not one step back!" you get full bonus for frontline troops on defense but not much for any reserves behind current front lines, or you can set it as Defense in depth which would not give the full bonus for the first line of defense but reserves (2nd line of defense) would get similar bonus as the frontline etc. This would also mean that if you are set for defense, your sudden attack would be without suport from these assets, but could be worth it in some situations (because the enemy is set to attack so doesnt have bonuses as well). Add in commander modifiers and it's golden.
This could also lead to feints and mind games, especially in multiplayer and also be more realistic, win-win ;)

As for the support units, they could be recon, artillery, engineers, TD, anti-air etc each giving a distinct bonus for a different area (so not a flat +5% combat strength increase). Different types would have different characteristics, but to keep it simple just stick to 2 types of each (arty/sp arty, engineers/mechanized engineers...) with similar stats but the more expensive ones would reduce the needed time to get the full bonus (and probably also needed to be researched first). So now you can have flexible but expensive army, cheaper but less flexible or a mix of both.

I would see Corps/Army assets giving a combat modifier complementing the 'Planning Bonus' rather that instead of it.

The rest I think is a great idea.
 

plasticpanzers

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Podcat said that? He is my new favorite person...:)
 

Jorgen_CAB

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I have not seen anything mentioned about HQ or army structure in the game outside the general who take charge of a battle-plan... this make me somewhat worried about he immersion of the game going more streamlined and arcade like... :(

Perhaps someone could correct me on this?
 

Radu

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I have not seen anything mentioned about HQ or army structure in the game outside the general who take charge of a battle-plan... this make me somewhat worried about he immersion of the game going more streamlined and arcade like... :(

Perhaps someone could correct me on this?

There won't be one. Not like in HOI3.

If that's a no-go for you that's fair, but the reason is that a Chain of Command is problematic. If the player takes control, then it doesn't make sense. Why put a Corps commander when you micromanage his divisions (like Hitler did with his generals late in the war)? But if you leave the Chain of Command to the AI, the AI is well, stupid.

Because of those reasons the Chain of Command brought a significant amount of both computational complexity and no small amount of interface cumbersomeness all for basically flavor. Mechanically it was either the player going over the head of the Chain of Command micromanaging everything or leaving it to the AI, and well, you know the AI.

It's a lot easier to just have "stacks" under a certain commander and that's that.

True, that still wouldn't have necessitated the removal of divisional commanders. It would still be cool to see those even if the overall command reverts to HOI2-style stacks.

But then again, divisional commanders are, database-wise, a huge effort. This is especially true if they overhaul Commander Traits or Commander Skill. Then you need to revisit all hundreds of Divisional Commanders. This is not a small effort.

So I don't hold it against Paradox for deciding not to "fight this battle". (Unlike some other easily implemented elements *cough* Transport Planes *cough*)
 

plasticpanzers

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Wait.....how can there be Corp Assets that Podcat likes when we don't have Corps??? EH? :eek:
 

Axe99

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Perhaps "Stack assets" would be a better term. If the map has the proper granularity the "Stacks" will be corps-sized. I think.

That'd work quite well as well - folk that want historical sized corps can create appropriate stacks, and folk that don't can do what they like (stacking penalties and whatever else aside).
 

Jorgen_CAB

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Immersion and detail are obviously more important to some than others. If the game become more of a beer and pretzels game with WW2 as a theme that is going to alienate the older HoI crowd, I'm pretty sure of that.

Without at least the feel that you are in command of a real army, air-force or navy the game just become a mesh of units, leveling commanders and farming mana to level your units within a WW2 skin. This is to me a boring game.

I reserve final judgement about this until more have been revealed. I like the concept of the battle-planning system but not to the detriment of immersion where you just have stacks of "units" attached to arrows on a map.
 

plasticpanzers

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I want my Corps with their "assets". Without an "asset" your legs have nothing to hold them together and you fall down......
 
Last edited:

Chromos

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I basically like this idea. Thats why I have also Corps units in my mod wich help overall play by ai too.

Historically Corps and Army HQ's had assigned all the hvy stuff like hvy Art/Rocket Art/SHARM and if you look at US, there it had also the whole lot of ENG and TD assigned.
Armoured Scouts and such too. Well you named that already.

Ingame it could happen more easily if we had the HQ's still on the map, now we would need a new idea. Having it off map would still need to take into account terrain/doctrine/defensive/offenisve and so on. You could magically assume that the HQ is mostly in the main Center of a region, but then it is more Region based as Corps/Army.
Hard to say how to do it without knowing how Army stuff will work overall in HoI4.

Anyway, +1 for this idea! :)