Corporation Wars - Armies, MegaCorp and Wars itself

[Kael90]

Also a second suggestion!
Mainly because i think Armys are mostly useless. You use them to conquer a planet and... yea - thats it. And plz dont be to harsh of my english im not a native speaker

And for Corps - you got your branch and then you are mostly untouchable. You can just get it by directly conquering it or destroying the other MegaCorp. In General it feels like a regular Empire and thats something which... is good and bad.
Good about that it just plays like a regular Empire. Bad, that it feels like a regular empire when its still different.
And i think we should go the 'different' path of it.

So i want to suggest... *drum roll* ...

The Idea
Corporation Wars​

Corporations try to outmatch their opponent all the time. They are competetive and most importantly: They want to get more profit with their products!
In the actual Game its mostly just: Energy and Tradepoints. Which is generally nice but it could be better with not 'THAT' much effort. At the Moment - Corps feels like playing like a regular empire, with the only difference that you can open Branch offices. Yea cool... But it doesnt feel like you ARE a Corporation. And This is the Idea how to - MAYBE - change it.

What exactly does this Idea change?
Especially the way how a Corporation fight a war and how they interact with each other over the important branches. So it gives you a new kind of Setup HOW to play them, making them more interesting instead of just Trad-Point farming. This should give MegaCorps the ability to WHAT a Corporation should do even yet now: They are going to be essential by manipulating or supporting wars - getting profit out of it.

Also - it should be noted that with this one - Corps can have wars over their branches.

The Change of Branches
In the actual Gameplay and Meta - Branches are a... 'nice to have' thing. Its important for MegaCorps but if you dont get a Branch, like you didnt encounter neighbours in the early beginning. And even when you met a neighbour there is a chance that he is a hive mind, gestalt or a simple purifier. So... Even then it is like a gamble if you even have the chance to get something (i am not talking about multiplayer) is also some kind of... 'low' in some games. And when you then met other neighbours which then do commerce pacts with you - it also often happen that there is always a MegaCorp. And then the reason comes out why i am writing this suggestion:

After this happens you can only do 2 things to get a Branch somewhere:
1. Declare War on the MegaCorp and completly destroy it
2. Declare war on the Guy who has the Commerce Pact and Vassal him

So...when i look at it - it simply feels like "the first one is here the first one gets it" - and there is litelary nothing to change that and thats a thing which reeeaally annoys me. Especially because Corps are there to compete with each other. And competing like "yea bro,i got the first commerce pact" doesnt feel like competing with each other.

New Ressource - "Military Goods"

(i know my paint skills are unmatched)

Military Goods is something which is in the actual game a combination of energy, special ressources and alloys. Simply because Ship upkeep cost Alloys and Energy.

But to make it a bit more interesting... why not add this? Because of some Reasons:

1. War gets more logistical
2. Offers opportunities for trade
3. People have to think a bit of how to attack instead of just "yea lets roll with my big fleets in"
4. You can be more dependent on other players/civs.

But what are Military Goods now?
Military Goods is a Ressource which is a Basic Ressource PLUS Special Ressource. This means the following:
They are the 'regular' Weapons you have and mostly used for everything. Its a 'major Ressource type' which contains everything from Shells, Rockets, Infantry Weapons and more.

But in the later game it should be specialized. We already have volatile materials, gas and crystals.
These is the stuff where the MegaCorps get more into it. The MegaCorps should create special weaponry. Because MegaCorps should get like 25% or 50% Production bonusses with the special Weapons.
Examples:
Gas Weapons:
-Toxic Bombs (Orbital Bombardment)
-Toxic Shells
-Toxic Laser

Volatile Weapons:
-Shrapnellbombs
-Shrapnell Shells
-Unstable Laser

Crystal Weapons:
-Precise Strike Rockets
-Hardened Shells
-Concentrated Laser

This are just some examples, i think there could be more usefulness of it. But what i ment to say was: These Weapons should mostly be created by MegaCorps and then sold to other Empires/Players.

How does Military Goods produced?
Military Goods get produced in industry districts and are made by "Weaponsmiths". Also there should be a new Tech for upgrading them to better ones. But the specialized Ones are Level 2 Upgrades. Like: You build a regular Weaponsmith Factory, then upgrade them to like "Shrapnellbomb Factory".

How it should affect the Game?
The special Weaponry is important for another thing which i suggest a bit later.

Military Division Designer
​

This one is one of the Core implementations of this Idea. the MDD works like the Ship-Designer we already have ingame. It also should look nearly the same and especially should WORK like it.
In the Beginning you should have 1 base template. The Divisions are also affected by the Military Goods and what kind of ammunition they use.

"Planetary Defense Force"

This one gives you the standard guys who are in the defense of your planet. You can manipulate them. But because you are 'creating Armies' i would go down and would say you create divisions.
The Divisions then are formed into an army (which is the group you are assigned them to)

These Divisions are split into 6 Regiments and 3 Support companies, 1 Support and 3 "Special-Slots"

Regiments Settings would be:
Unit Type (Infantry, Mechanized, Tanks)
Weaponry (Laser, Rockets, Shells)
Base Troops
Base Troops is interesting because in the early game you have to setup a race into it. Mostly its your own race. But later by Tech you could change it to "Requierements". Requierements delete the 'Race-Factor' in your Empire for your army and instead you just have 1 Army for everything. This deletes the annoying: "I have 10 Civs in my Empire and i have 30 different types of Armies in the recruitment area simply because everyone can be a soldier!"

Support Company Settings would be:
Special Companys are created by 2 Regiments. Which means mostly this:

So you dont have to deal what kind of 'unit' they are. What you mostly do with them is 'modifying' the 2 Regiments. So you could add a 'Medical Company', 'Scout-Company' or something different for them. Medical Company should give them ,while in Fight, regeneration ability to stay longer in Battle. You could also setup Clone-Warriors or Gene-Modificated troops. All works

Special Company
the Special Company is mostly like an complete modificator for your whole Army. This could be like "General Staff HQ", Radar Company etc. or something that i really would like: Breaching Drill. with that you can send your Troops into enemy fleets and they start going into Melee with the ships. Just like the Romans did with the carthages in the first punic war... he he...

In the End there also would be the "Special Slots".
These are the same things like with the Ship Designer: Power Slot and more importantly: Fighting Doctrine.

Also dont forget that you have then a military manager!

Transport Ships
In the End this is something i really miss in the Game and also it is very important for me: The transport Ships. Tbh - to make it simple: Give them the FRIGATE Setup but instead of 1 Torpedo and 1 Small slot, give them 2 Small Slots. So for each Army you set in spehs, you get 1 bad corvette. So Armies arent completly useless in Space and could defend against some pirates. Or simply give them bording drill!


"Okay cool Kael, but what has this done with Corporate Wars now?"

We get to it soon. But we arent done with the basics yet!

The Branch System
I like the Idea of Branches itself. But i also think the implementation was some kind of lazy. In general its: Hey i got some building slots for free! NOICE!
So i would make it this way:
Instead of having 1 to 4 Building Slots - when you open a Branch you get 'Branch-Land'.
One of the other things is also: 2 Players could get some Corp. Land but have to 'split' it between each other.
This Land is more likely to be a small planet with the Size of 3 or 4 and with 3 building slots to a total of 6.
They are not named discript but Corporations. So a Mining District is a Mining Corporation you implement. Housing Districts are motel districts and so on. With building one, you give the planet user some worker-places or specialist places for it and also gain something for yourself.

Then yo can still use the building slots. You start with 4. These Slots do the special things but cheaper and not as 'efficient' as in the actual meta. You can also place defense positions here. The Branch-Land expands with the pop grow of the planet and freed disctricts. Maximal 6 Discricts and maximal 8 buildings

Oh - and i think you should be able to get smaller Branches on Hive-Worlds and Gestalt-Worlds. But not as efficient as named above. but why you cant ge some food for the Hive and some Money from them and why not getting some Alloys for the Robots! THEY WOULD BE HAPPY!(if they could feel happiness)

And what about now with the Corporate Wars? DUDE I WANT TO KNOW IT!

Its fine... its fine ... now is the time... to ask you about your car insurance


And to tell you how corporate wars work!

As mentioned earlier - we have the problem with the wars itself and how you get something. This is the explanation how you could fix this.

How it should work:
You are a MegaCorp and dont have a Branch. But you are very mighty! And you want to enforce some Branches on some players.
There is a player next to you but he has already Branches everywhere. BUT you also have a commerce pact with him. So... legitimately said: you have the RIGHT to have a branch there! I mean you are a Megacorp. But how you would do it?

First: You look which is the player who has a Branch there. Then you open the Menue and 'declare Branch-War' on him. This System works nearly the same as some colonial wars in other Paradox Games.
BUT - the Guy who has the planet doesnt get into the war. Also: You are not allowed to do Space Fighting in his area. I mean: this is a branch war and not a total war. You dont want any planets from someone and you dont want to destroy.. okay you want to destroy someone. But first you are there to get influence and a branch.

Then the Armies come to place: Armies can land on the Planet of the player who has the branch office. These Armies then start fighting with the armies from the other MegaCorp Player. Maybe he has done some defensive buildings there and so got some Security Staff to defend against you.

But more importantly: Branch Wars doesnt trigger Space Battles! They really ONLY appear on the planets. You cant just fly into the space of the other corp and attack them with your fleet. Because Branch-Wars arent any kind of 'real war'. They are more like military competition on a planet.

How does it affect the Planet?
When the troops are fighting on your planet something happen.
1. Criminality goes up as long as the battle happen (when the first battle starts, instantly 2,5% and then stays the whole time till the war ends)
2. stability goes down as long as the battle happen(because of criminality)
3. Production from workers goes up to nearly 5% or 10%
4. Energy gets up to 5 to 10%
6. Research goes up from 2,5 to 5%
7. Devastation of the planet can go up to maximal 25%

What are the reasons for this?
Criminality
I mean, for real, they are fighting, killing each other... really need to explain?

Production, Energy and Research:
Passively many things happen in your planet then. The soldiers go into brothels, they bribe politicians, they want ammunition and all some sort from YOUR planet because: Its not a war. So your
economy gets a HUGE BOOST with this wars. But on the other hand the stability goes slowly down.

Devastation:
This should only happen if the war is REALLY intense. With that i mean: Both players are sending army after army on your planet that both have like 5k or more there. (even when its not worth the cost). Your planet can get into a real battlefield.

How to prevent/act in Branch-Wars
If you are mighty enough you could do some things to prevent/act this war:
1. Dont go into commerce pact with many players
2. When the war starts, commerce pacts cant be declined. But you could still declare war on the attacking MC Player. Which then makes everything he does on your planets illegal. (but on the other hand, if he already has many armies on your planet he simply overtake them without the need of destroying starbases).
3. You could lend troops to one of the MC to end this more quickly and more indirect.

How to minimize damage
By implementing Enforcer or Strongholds on your planet you should be able to minimize it.

How to escalate the conflict:
You could escalate the conflict as a MC by simply declaring a 'REAL WAR' against your opponent. then everything works as usual. Its a regular war.

So...That is the 'base-idea' i had to reform the MegaCorp Gameplay... Its not completly rounded but i think the base idea behind it is some kind of nice.

 

[Kael90]

no critique, no up? nothing? :O

 

[Metallichydra]

I think there's a few problems with this idea.
1. Introducing a new resource doesn't sound like a good idea. Alloys are already what military goods is trying to be
2. This seems more like 3 ideas mashed together with no real connection between each other
3. The owner of a planet would not allow wars to be fought on their planets. That would be like armed mcDonalds staff attacking a nearby burgerking.
4. This would make getting a branch office on your world a risk. And it shouldn't be, unless its a criminal heritage.

I do like the idea of megacorps being able to wage smaller wars where they try to gain control of a branch office, although I feel like it should be more of a legal battle and less of an actual battle.

 

[Kael90]

1.Yea. But Alloys seem for me not like a real... 'military ressource' like ammunition. Generally alloys i see as ressource for ship building and not as ammunition. But i get your point.

2. And yea -its more ideas into 1. Simply because it wouldnt work if it would just changed a bit.
You need a bit variation to keep it interesting.

3. You think so? I look on it like in this way:
Lets compare a planet with a biiig city - even in earlier times
We have the Planet (New York)
We have 2 MegaCorps dealing with each other (Gangs + Corp Troops)
and we have the Police Force (Planet owner)

4. Wont say it would make them per se at risk. It really depends on how you play with it and how to manage everything. Like - if you get the production bonusses: MAYBE thats what you want? more production? Also it would make some tradition trees more interesting because you gain less criminality from it.

Also it would be interesting how you would like to implement some legal-wars? pumping energy in a planet? political parties on a planet?
Its always risky for the player who owns the planet. But he doesnt loose control.

 

[Metallichydra]

3. You think so? I look on it like in this way:
Lets compare a planet with a biiig city - even in earlier times
We have the Planet (New York)
We have 2 MegaCorps dealing with each other (Gangs + Corp Troops)
and we have the Police Force (Planet owner)

I was thinking of legal bussiness, but gang wars between two criminal heritages or criminal heritage vs normal megacorp would be awesome.

 

[Kael90]

Yep. Thats the main idea behind it.

And also why Army Editor and a better Branch-System would be necessary to make it 'more fun'. And these gang wars, even normal corp vs. normal corp could make it a bit different and with many modifications in it. So i guess it could be fun if well implemented.

But atm - i think the 'branch-conquer' system extremely worse and i cant see a 'big' difference between MC and regular empires. While i think MC was intented to be much different but then got shutdown to what we have atm.

 

[Ebrelian]

1. An additional ressource could be interesting, but instead of military supplies, which would only make sence for militaristic corporation and alloy already fill, I would go for advanced parts. It would work similar to consumer goods, being mostly an upkeep resource. It would combine with consumer goods to simulate luxury items and with alloy for high tech weapons. As such, it's a ressource, even if not needed or cost effective, that gives the best output, so most empires would want it.

Every empire would produce a small output, militarist would have a discount in usage for high tech weapons, pacifist a discount in luxury goods usage and megacorp's trade deal would also produce some. This way, every empire are encouraged to get trade deal for more with megacorps and megacorps encouraged to have the most and best one, leading to the competition and fighting.

2. An army manager would be great to streamline and improve army gameplay, but for the good ideas you have, it might be a little too much complexity for a secondary part of the game that armies are.
Custom transport ship would be great, having configuration to not make transports sitting ducks. Armed (weaker corvette), bording (weaker frigate), patrol (speed + pirate suppression) or heavy (spawn a copy army on invasion)

3. For branch, why not simply add more holding slots instead of creating ''district'' in addition to the building slots ?
Megacorps splitting the available slots would be interesting. For exemple, keeping the value as currently ingame, a planet get +1 slot for each capital building level, for a maximum of 4. The difference would be that now, two (or more) megacorp can open branch offices. Each branch would get 2 slots by default, but they can now buy/steal/conquer the slots they don't have.
Gesalt should have branch office, their populations do not trade, but the gesalt mind can and they could make use of a private mining consortium.
There should be more special holding, like there is for overlords, encouraging host empire to desire as much branch office per planet as possible.
A trade contract window like there is for vassal contract would be great; From trading partners to becoming the bank holding your morgage and unequal treaty.

4. Corporate war is a good idea, but it is more akin to drug gang war; so like Metallichydra wrote, limited to be started by Criminal Heritage megacorps would logical. Otherwise, most empire are probably going to kick both empire out fast.
Corporation are more likely the try to make the other fail or go legal, so for normal megacorps, it should be a spy, money or influence game.
Influencing would work best with a trade contract window and secure deals.
With money, you could simply pay the host empire to lock a holding slot to yourself. When there is no free slot, you would attempt to free the slot of a competitor by paying the host. Target of opening could pay the same value to the host to block it. On succes, the holding slot it given in proportion of branch office (can stay to the same megacorp) and open to buying. However it goes, the host get richer.
Saboage would entails operations to make the competition branch worthless, where it would close at negative values, like criminal branch at 0% crime. Targeted megacorp would have the option to accept the closure or invest heavily to try and restore. Or you can sabotage relation between the host and the other megacorp so they get kicked and you're the sole megacorp left.

 

[Kael90]

@Ebrelian
Thanks man! Thats very good input.

1. I like the Idea. My Main Idea for the 'Weaponry' really benefits more offensive playstyles. The main Idea was to get a bit more variation in it. So the MC can produce different stuff than 'just' 1 component. The Problem lies that, if we go for trade value as example, we simply 'stack' another ressource higher and higher and MAYBE just sell it.
I like the Idea with the advanced components but i also think there should be some variation in it and maybe making things dependant on it. Like, i as a MegaCorp has to decide: What is the product i want to 'mass produce' or do i want a balanced approach to sell them?

More importantly, something which just appear in my mind after: What do i get as MegaCorp what is such important for me, so i would try to do Trade deals and how these benefits are calculated?

So maybe it would be useful if we could give some Trade-Deals more importancy? Why i should sell these stuff and not use it by my own fleets (es example) - so we have to make the goods very valuable but on the other hand give us a reason to sell it in the same time. (this could be, because of more negative effects?)

2. The Army thing is one of the more important things... It COULD be too complicated. But in the end it would make Armies more easily created. Like - with the ships - once created you have your blueprint and not like 20 different blueprints of creating them. It would also give the players the opportunity of minmaxing it out. Especially when MegaCorp will be more into Land Battles than Space-Battles. While regular empires normally dont care about this. THey just build their regular empire and hardstomp some planets simply by mass.
These wont be very avaiable for the planet fighting over the branches, simply because if you put more armies in it - the planet owner could see it as an invasion of his planet and simply try to kick you out.

3. Yes - the splitting is a good idea. My Main thing - why i even suggest it - was "man... why tf i have to go for a full scale war to get 1 Branch office". And after this idea the big post happen!.

I think your solution would be an 'easier' one. But then we should define 'How' you get them and how you can defend against it. So you have to vary it to some sort of.

4. tbh - i dont like even the Idea of the civic 'criminal heritage' itself. The Reason for this is simple: If you have the civic and as soon as someone had some relations with you, nearly everyone knows it. So its pretty obvious not to deal with you. Instead - i think ALL options should be avaiable for the MegaCorp. And maybe you have criminal heritage as civic, you shouldnt simply only be avaiable to do it because it. It should be 'easier' for you to do stuff with it. If you do it with a civic and you just got 1 mechanic because you have that civic... it shouldnt be stuck just with that.

 

[Ebrelian]

1a. With your MC rare ressource idea, I thought of semi-conductors and imagined a more generic Advanced components. A ressource that the wider you are the less you have (as your needs increase quite faster than the production), thus needing trading, the market or better, a megacorp to get. Megacorps difference come from being trade focus and having branch office, so as a bonus to commercial pact for a regular empire while MC gain access to branch office. Megacorp playing taller would also have less need of it. That would be simple way to implement it.

1b. To better determine what each parties should give and receive, I would be to have trade deals and commercial pacts be remade as a trade contracts. This would make trading agreements more important and having more gravitas. In this you could determine what is passively from the void received from both empire (replacing trade policy), lenght, contribution (like for vassal, optional), guaranteed holdings (optional), protection, etc.

2. Army manager is a must. The a little complex part was more for the army composition, combinaison and attachments. Simply having more troop choices and easier management would make it easier and more engaging, without an actual rework. An improvement for everyone.
Aside from gang war where a party attacks another, regular MC might have security guards, but those are more akin to defense army than assault army, so no need to manage them. Or assassin, which are more a spy operation. Mercenary companies would be more inline, but that would be an actual invasion of someone else's planet for a corporate competition, nothing that would look good.

3. A simple way to attribute holding slot would be to give the first holding to the first office established, second to the second, third to the third or looping back to the first. With trade contract you could secure branch primacy and holding slots. To change their assignation, normal regular MC would fight with corporate power : wealth and influence. Either "buying out a slot" or forcing the competition to close down.
- For example, the planet currently has 3 holding slots, you have the first opened branch and no guaranteed slots; thus you have 2 slots, your competitor 1 and all can be bought. To buy the slot from the competion, you create a biding for it. You input an amount and your competition either accept or match, afterward you either stop or increase again. If you fail, you pay half the amount to the host and if you win you pay half to the host and the other half to the competition you brought the slot from.
When the number of slot increase to 4, the new slot is given to the smallest branch, your competition in this case. To note, even with 0 holding slots, your branch is not closed and still provides benefits, which might not be worth the empire size though.
- In the case that you are poorer than your competition, unable to convince the host to guarantee you a holding, then only sabotage is left. You start a spy operation, spending ressources and influence in an attempt to crash the opposing branch value. When the operation suceed, the competition receives a message that their branch office is in trouble. They can either spend ressources and influence to salvage the situation. If they can't, mostly from the lack of influence, the branch office close and you get the holdings of the planet, until someone else come to open a branch competion on the given planet.

4. It's true that criminal heritage has some problems. Intelligence and not immediately knowing the civcs of empire helped, but criminality level makes it a given. Even if you know not to deal with the criminal MC, they still set shop, but you simply add more enforcer and the branch will close. To problem is that there is no play/counter play that is interesting. Either the need is to make harder to get rid off and more profiteble or more subtle.
- Drug gang : Mostly as it is, but it's an hidden branch and instead of a flat 25 crime per holding, you get hidden crime per pop and criminal troops. With higher crime rate, you get higher chance of negative events and to reveal the hidden crime ring. When you learn of it, you either crime lord deal to get a cut of the profit or try to oppose it. Passively opposing it and with enough enforcers can still close passively the branch. Actively opposing it implies sending the troops, your army versus the criminal troops; you mostly pay this with the insuing devastation and if you somehow lose, the planet becomes occupied and the ressources syphoned until you free it.
- Mobster front : Using regular branch requiring a commercial pact, non hidden and regular building. Yet, there is still an hidden crime per pop (lower than the drug gang) and criminial troops. Can still provoque negative events, but it's rarer. Dealt the same way as the drug gang or by ending the trade agreement.

 

[zZander56]

While I don't think I agree with exactly what you suggested, I would love to see some form of competition for branch offices outside of war.