Cornish names

[Varyar]

Perhaps this is somewhat over-the-top roleplay, but having freed the people of the duchy of Cornwall from the yoke of the English as the kingdom of Brittany I have an urge to rename the counties and holdings to more suitable Brythonic names. Cornwall/Kernow have readily available Cornish names, but Devon is much trickier to research. So far I have only found two Welsh names (Devon - Dyfnaint; Exeter - Caerwysg) but nothing for Lydford nor Axminster.

Seeing as these fora are a fountain for all sorts of obscure knowledge, perhaps someone could provide me with
A) authentic Cornish/Briton names
B) reasonably sounding Cornish/Briton names
or C) Welsh/random Celtic names
for Devon and its holdings? It'd be appreciated.

(also, the county of Devon should perhaps start with Saxon culture instead of Breton)

And now, after having paused from the game for two hours only to research this, it's time to return to king Hoël I the Strong of Brittany!

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Can't help you, but you might be interested in these mods:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?595339-MOD-Cantrefi-Wales-Divided
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?620137-Mod-The-Matter-of-Britain

or have a look at the Master mod list
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?587747-Crusader-Kings-II-Master-Mod-List


(edit):
The Cornish culture mod is not updated, but may have interesting files as mentioned by spartanlemur.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?585621-MOD-Cornish-Culture-Mini-Mod

 

[Spartanlemur]

lol back when I started playing CK2 I spent several hours researching cornish names, looking through loads of sources and managed to put together a culture file. I then realised that Knuckey had already put together a very good cornish culture mod, albeit with a smaller name bank (I genuinely spent from morning to evening searching for names only), so I just used that.

cornish = {
		graphical_culture = celticgfx

		color = { 0.4 0.8 0.5 }

		male_names = {
			Adoyre Aedan Anaoc Aniud Argantbri Argantmoet Arranz Arthnou_Artognou Arthyen Austol Beli Benesek Bideven Bledros Bleidcum Blyth Branwalather Brenci Brengy Brethoc			Brithael Bryok_Breoc Budic Buthek_Bithek Cadan Cadoc Cador Cantgueithen Carantoc Carrow Catgutic Casvelyn Caswyn Cenmin Cingur Cinhoedl Clesek
			Colan_Collen Comoere Conan Conmonoc Conredeu Corentyn Costentyn Cuilliok Daveth Denzel Dofagan Donyerth_Donyarth Elowen Frioc Gawen Gelvinak Gerens 
			Gest Glastenen Glewas_Glewyas Grifiud Golvan Gorlas Gorneves Goron Gorthelyk Gourgy Guentanet Guentigirn Guithrit Guincum Gurbodu Gurcant Gurcencor 
			Gurci Gurcon Gurdilic Gurguaret Gurguistl Gurheter Guriant Gurlouen Gurthcid Gwynek Hedyn Hincomhal Iarnguallon Ilcarthon Iliud Inisian Iudicael 
			Iudnerth Jago Jory Jowan Kea Keresyk_Kerezik Kevern Kitto Leucum Loi Louenan Loumarch Madron_Madern Maeloc MaelPatraic Margh_March Marrek Masek 
			Matuid Mawgan Medrod Mermin Meryasek Meryn Milcenoc Milyan Mor Morcant Morhaetho Myghal Nadelek Neythen Ossne Padern Pasco_Pascow Peder Pencast 
			Petrock Piran Putrael Resmen Rewan_Rumon Ryol_Riol Ryd Salenn Seleven Silyen Sithny Talan Talek Telent Terithien Tethion Trevedic Tristan_Trystan 
			Ungust Uther Wella Withell Willow Zethar
		}
		female_names = {
			Aedoc Ailla Anaguistl Anauprost Andras Arranz Banallan Berlewen Bersaba Beryan Breaca Bryluen Catguistl Ceinguled Chesten Columba Conwenna Cordelia Cryda 
			Delen Derowen Derwa Diuset Dywana Elestren Elowen Endeloyn Esyld Fuandrec Gloiucen Gloiumed Guenbrith Guencen Guencenedl Guenguiu Guenmon Gwenifer Gwennol 
			Ilcum Iudprost Jenifer Jenifry Jenna_Jana Jowanet Kayna Kelyn Kensa Kerenza_Kerensa Kerra Lowenek Mabyn Manacca Mariot Marya Medguistl Meduil Melwyn Melyonen 
			Melyor Meonre Morgelyn Moruith Morvoren Morwenna Morwennol Nessa Newlyna Nonna  Oncenedl Oncum Ordguydel Ourcen Ourdilic Proscen Prosguetel Rozen Rozenwyn Rum 
			Senara Sevi Talwyn Tamara Tamon Tamsyn Teca Tegen Tressa Tryfena Wilmot_Wylmet Ygerna_Ygraine Zethar

		}
		from_dynasty_prefix = "de "
		male_patronym = "ap "
		prefix = yes

		modifier = default_culture_modifier

		# Chance of male children being named after their paternal or maternal grandfather, or their father. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grf_name_chance = 80
		mat_grf_name_chance = 0
		father_name_chance = 0
		
		# Chance of female children being named after their paternal or maternal grandmother, or their mother. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grm_name_chance = 10
		mat_grm_name_chance = 50
		mother_name_chance = 0
	}

That's the culture text I use for names. They come from various sources, but mostly an ancient Bodmin shipping manifest.


Devon should have the same names as Cornwall, as they were most likely once a part of the same Celtic Kingdom, before the East part was conquered by the Saxons and the West was eventually vassalised. You're probably right about Devon starting off as Saxon, as residents probably fled west. Tintagel was a major trade centre and so was probably the capital of "Dumnonia" (although they probably didn't call themselves that). Exeter was also important, however.

 

[Varyar]

@Aardvark Bellay: cool stuff, I'll check it out.

You're probably right about Devon starting off as Saxon, as residents probably fled west.

Well, I came across sources citing a "Saxonification" of Devon before Wessex was conquered by Sveyn Forkbeard, i.e. well before the starting point of this game, hence it would seem more than appropriate to have Saxon culture there rather than Breton.

Also, thanks for the personal names, but what I'd really need is those few particular placenames. Not that Lydford cannot keep its new name "Fort Keltic Smash!", but it's not quite the same.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

At least you have better Breton names now.

 

[robez]

If you want a fun and challenging game and if you like cornwall,start as count of cornwall one month after the original start date.William the Bastard hates you,High crown authority and poor expansion alternative.Have done this with my custom Tristan de Cadoc about 30 times,always fun.Just a tip.

 

[Yanqui9]

Perhaps this is somewhat over-the-top roleplay, but having freed the people of the duchy of Cornwall from the yoke of the English as the kingdom of Brittany I have an urge to rename the counties and holdings to more suitable Brythonic names. Cornwall/Kernow have readily available Cornish names, but Devon is much trickier to research. So far I have only found two Welsh names (Devon - Dyfnaint; Exeter - Caerwysg) but nothing for Lydford nor Axminster.

Seeing as these fora are a fountain for all sorts of obscure knowledge, perhaps someone could provide me with
A) authentic Cornish/Briton names
B) reasonably sounding Cornish/Briton names
or C) Welsh/random Celtic names
for Devon and its holdings? It'd be appreciated.

(also, the county of Devon should perhaps start with Saxon culture instead of Breton)

And now, after having paused from the game for two hours only to research this, it's time to return to king Hoël I the Strong of Brittany!
View attachment 61976

If you don't mind some historical inaccuracy and speculation, there's always the modern recreations of the Cornish language. Googling around will find some sites about Modern Cornish and some of those have some "translations" of place names in Modern Cornish. There used to be a site about Devon too, talking about Devonian (Deunansek), the attempt to recreate the supposed Brythonic language of SE Britain and Dumnonia. There's stuff out there, its just takes some digging to find.

 

[tuebor]

According to the Cornish wikipedia the name for Devon is Dewnens. In Breton it's usually just called Devon but some people call it Devnent (pronounced dewnent). Exactly what names are you looking for? I speak Breton and I can usually get the jist of Cornish so I can look around for those other names if you like.

http://kw.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewnens

 

[Vagn]

Another option is looking through the etymologies of place names in Cornwall, Devon and to a lesser extent the rest of Britain using something like this, which I'm currently using for expanding the number of Anglo-Saxon names.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dictionary-...7586/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345918803&sr=8-2

 

[Varyar]

According to the Cornish wikipedia the name for Devon is Dewnens. In Breton it's usually just called Devon but some people call it Devnent (pronounced dewnent). Exactly what names are you looking for? I speak Breton and I can usually get the jist of Cornish so I can look around for those other names if you like.

http://kw.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewnens

Ah, thank you! The names I'd need a Cornish/Breton/Celtic version of are Exeter, Lydford, and Axminster.

EDIT: Nevermind Exeter, found it in your Cornish wiki link

 

[tuebor]

Ah, thank you! The names I'd need a Cornish/Breton/Celtic version of are Exeter, Lydford, and Axminster.

EDIT: Nevermind Exeter, found it in your Cornish wiki link

Having poked around for a bit there don't seem to be any Breton or Cornish names for either Axminster or Lydford. At a guess I'd say these towns were built after Devonian was spoken in Devon. We usually just try to use local names for things that are outside of the area the languages are (or were) spoken, for example there are only 2 cities in France with Breton names, as far as I'm aware, Paris (Pariz) and Bordeaux (Bourdel) although I'm pretty sure the later was just Bretons trying to imitate the Occitan Bordèu. I know the Cornish have names for some larger English cities but it's probably because of trade links, like Bretons with Paris and Bordeaux.

If you really want to just have Celtic names all I can really suggest is changing the names to towns that do have Cornish names. Plymouth is called Aberplymm but for the life of me I can't find anything else in Devon with a Cornish name. There wouldn't be any Breton names because Bretons don't usually come up with their own names for foreign towns.

 

[Spartanlemur]

Well the Cornish wikipedia seems to list Exeter as "Karesk"...i think. No google translate and a picture of exeter cathedral lead me to believe that this is the case. The river Axe is apparently of celtic origin, probably spelled as it was originally recorded in the 9th century - Ascan. Minster is monastery, which is managhti. Combine those as you will.
Lydford was founded by the Saxons, so at a massive stretch, combining Lyd/Lyghat (leaving the river name the same) and the Cornish for village, we get Lyghatrevow/Lydtrevow (granted trevow is plural, but it sounds more appropriate than Lyghatrev/Lydtrev, at least IMO.).

 

[richvh]

Why "trev/trevow" rather than whatever the Cornish for ford (shallow river crossing) is?

 

[Spartanlemur]

The dictionary I was looking at didn't have a translation for ford in it. As a Saxon village, were it ever conquered by the Cornish they could have named it what they liked. They may have stayed true to the Saxon name, but they could just have easily named it something completely new. If someone can get a translation for ford, then that would probably be more appropriate, but using Trev/Trevow wouldn't be entirely implausible.

 

[Varyar]

Thanks for your replies guys, you've been very helpful

Given the facts at hand I'll go with the following names:
Devon - Dewnens
Exeter - Karesk
Axminster - Axemanaghti
Lydford - Dynkernowyon (which hopefully means "Fort (of the) Cornish (people)" - since the holding is a castle in the game)

Again I wonder why Devon starts with Breton culture instead of Saxon. Perhaps to "shield" Cornwall from too early culture conversion?