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datachild

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Tegetthoff said:
b) Any explanation why the CHI collapse is happening is highly appreciated. I have really invested a lot of work into CHI/JAP and this collapse seems unexplainable.
Sadly I don't have a screenshot from back then, but I think JAP managed to build a pocket with a larger amount of divisions. After they were destroyed the rest seemed to be no match.
EDIT: I hope I find the time to run another game next week, I will monitor the events more closely.

HistoryMan said:
The resource issue is slightly worrying - as GER, you should really find Rares are.. well.. Rare! What sort of stockpiles do you have ?
Playing Germany - 1.1.1942 - 701 effective IC, resources in SOV still building up => I will get even more over time :
Energy: 591k, +394/day
Metal: 168k, +144/day
Rare: 43k, +9/day (57 via trade)
Oil: 51k, +9/day (40 via trade)
Money: 38k / +39/day
Manpower: 2344 / + 2.04/day
 
Last edited:

Tegetthoff

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AoD patch 1.06b2

Some testers have reported that the open Beta works with the Beta 2 patch.

It really shouldn´t, but if you want to update your files: the only difference that matters are the last two lines in misc.txt (before the } bracket). Copy those over and it should work for sure.

If some daring souls run the Beta with 1.06b2 without modifications please report back on the results, especially the number of tech teams you have.
 

unmerged(133691)

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If some daring souls run the Beta with 1.06b2 without modifications please report back on the results, especially the number of tech teams you have.
US has got 1 whole Tech Team with 1.06B2 :D
 

Tegetthoff

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Well, that´s better than a crash ....

This is what the last lines in misc.txt should look like:

Code:
research = {
# Blueprint Bonus
	2.0
# Pre-Historical Date Mod (value * days prior to historical date. Lower limit for the total is -0.9. )
	-0.00100
# Money cost for each skill-level
	1.00 # was 1.65
# Mean number of "invention" events occuring per year
	4
# After-Historical Date Mod (value * days after to historical date. limit for the total is 1.50. )
	0.0005 # max is reached after 5.5 years
# Tech speed modifier - value below affects tech speed
	1.5
# _RV_PRE_HISTORICAL_PENALTY_LIMIT_, Can not go below
	0.1
# _RV_AFTER_HISTORICAL_PENALTY_LIMIT_, Can not go above
	2.0 # was 1.5
# _RV_MAX_TECH_SLOTS_, Maximum number of tech slots
	10
# _RV_SLOT_IC_INCREMENT_, IC increment when a slot is gained
	20
}
It´s the last line (and the comment line above) that are new. I assume the code reads in a 0 instead of a 20 and does not give you any tech teams beyond the first "base" one.
 

Tegetthoff

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Well, that´s better than a crash .... :D

This is what the last lines in misc.txt should look like:

Code:
research = {
# Blueprint Bonus
	2.0
# Pre-Historical Date Mod (value * days prior to historical date. Lower limit for the total is -0.9. )
	-0.00100
# Money cost for each skill-level
	1.00 # was 1.65
# Mean number of "invention" events occuring per year
	4
# After-Historical Date Mod (value * days after to historical date. limit for the total is 1.50. )
	0.0005 # max is reached after 5.5 years
# Tech speed modifier - value below affects tech speed
	1.5
# _RV_PRE_HISTORICAL_PENALTY_LIMIT_, Can not go below
	0.1
# _RV_AFTER_HISTORICAL_PENALTY_LIMIT_, Can not go above
	2.0 # was 1.5
# _RV_MAX_TECH_SLOTS_, Maximum number of tech slots
	10
# _RV_SLOT_IC_INCREMENT_, IC increment when a slot is gained
	20
}
It´s the last line (and the comment line above) that are new. I assume the code reads in a 0 instead of a 20 and does not give you any tech teams beyond the first "base" one.
 

Picko

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Hmm I think my game may be slightly odd either that or my ahistorical actions have thrown things off. Its November 1941 and there has been no Barbarossa, Germany and Russia have remained at peace. Now I am the UK and have crushed Italy in Libya, Ethiopia (starring a comedy Afrika Korps showing up in Addis Ababa) and taken control over the Dardanelles and Rhodes. Have I screwed things up inadvertently as there has been no greek war and barbaossa appears to have been called off in favour of an early Scilly campaign.
 

unmerged(133691)

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Looking at the amount of posts since CORE 0.5 I gather everybody is busy playing. :D

So am I, but I also wanted to give the devs some preliminary feedback on my experiences on 4 games as the US until 43. A lot of the stuff mentioned below has been reported by other forum members already, I can only confirm their findings. These are of course my observations and other players/members may not experience the same things I have. If required I will try to simulate or present savegames wherever required.
I categorized them in things I see as definite improvements over the previous CORE version with AOD and things I observed during my games as improvements.

Improvements:
- Japan Invasion AI is marvelous. Previously Japan used to stop after annexing Philippines and invading Borneo/Sumatra/Java. It now goes all the way to Guadalcanal and Japan is quite aggressive. Also in Birma, it used to get stuck a lot of the time but finally they break through to India. In my second game Darwin was overrun and I was totally unprepared to counter the Japanese. Good stuff. We don’t want to snooze while playing the US.

- Japan Naval AI: playing as the US I was faced with 14 IJN carriers at the time of war (July 14, 1941 a date that will live in infamy). I got a bloody nose a few times until I finally got some new carriers built. The Lexington and Saratoga were sent to Pearl twice for some heavy duty repairs and they blew several BBs out of the water near Pearl as well. Even playing on Normal/Normal as suggested, it was exhilarating to see Halsey and Nimitz trying to save the East Pacific from further attacks until reinforcements could arrive. Those 6 months were so intense; they were part of one of the most exciting games I played as the US in the Pacific Theater.

- Convoy raiding; absolute improvement here. The first few years I am not doing much damage, but once my Convoy Raiding reaches 120% or more (mid to end of 42), it really rips. Surface fleets on Naval Combat Patrol (156% for the US in 42) and Gato-class subs on Convoy Raiding (134% in 42) gets great results. First year of war (41 to 42); 100 convoys sunk, second year of war (42 to 43) 347 convoys sunk, most of these Japanese and Italianese, only some Germanese. Finally I can starve my enemies with subs.

- As a side note; my 3rd game I changed the # Combat Modifier: Total Naval Overstacking Mod for each non-transport division above two. from -0.02 to -0.01. Funny enough, I have seen more larger fleets from the enemy (between 11 and 17, I was used to 6-8 vessels) and the naval battles in these games were much more interesting. In my last game I met an IJN fleet of 17 vessels with 4 CV, 1BB, 1BC, 1CA and 10 screens. I was chewing on my Heineken bottle during that battle. My fleet survived, the bottle did not…. Not sure if it was due to the changing of this statistic though.


Observations/concerns:
- Resources; I know you have done a great job in converting 0.49 to 0.50, but as some members on the forum already mentioned, the resources in my games don’t reach the point where Germany, Italy or Japan feel the pain of being isolated from most of the world trade. In 43 as the US I have 52K rares and 200K oil, Germany has 42K rares and 54K oil. Japan and Italy also do not seem to have any problems in any of my games. I think the resources in combination with the several Industrial techs need some work.

- Sino-Japanese War; what I liked about CORE with 1.04 was the fact that China could hold out… to a point. Being the meddler that I am, I increased the infra, resources and IC in Chengdu and Chongqing a bit, and it made the Chinese hold out indefinitely without hampering the Japanese in their naval conquest. What I see in this version is that late 41 is the point that China gets overrun despite the ridiculous mass of troops (including MTN/HQ) they produce. To be honest, I liked the previous version better in this respect.

- SCW; after editing the “The Cause seems lost event”, everything seems to work. The -2 and -3 units indeed cause an issue after manually firing it and commenting these lines out seems to fix the issue for me. Still, I had to enter a few revolt commands to get things going after a stall in the civil war in 38.

- Italy/England; the North Africa Campaign is pretty random still. Sometimes the Italians penetrate the English defenses in Egypt, but most of the time the English kick the Italians all over the place. What is most worrying is that not only the Italians are very interested in the sands of the Sahara and want to camp there for the next ten years, the British seem to be infected as well. They would probably hunt the Italians all the way to South Africa (if I want to play through to 47)

- Operation Barbarossa: Germany is doing quite well in 41, but after 42 the Soviet Union already seems to stall them. In 43 the Germans are hopelessly lost; but not because of lack of units or resources. They are simply beaten back every time, even in summertime. Resources are not the issue, so it must be either be tech or build related. With the new debugai I can see the Germans are building a lot of … Reserves. Maybe it’s a MP thing, Germany has 9 MP in July 43.

- Italian Surrender; Once the Italians surrender to the Allies, the ISR gets no units (as far as I can see anyway), so the Allies gain a huge amount of low-level infantry to rush to Berlin. Seems a bit too easy in my mind and I thought German units were holding the line to Northern Italy. Maybe an extra surrender event that gives ISR some extra (german elite) units?

- When selecting a naval units and then moving the mouse to several islands (Anreanoff, Kiska, Amchitka are some examples) you get an UNKNOWN STRING WANTED. Probably cosmetic, but you may want to check it out anyway.
 

Wildcat_PL

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It seems I misunderstood the definition of licence and foreign plane building. It was the Hoi3 definition of licence building. So I just deleted my post. Sorry
 
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Tegetthoff

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@ Picko
From my own testing I get the impression that GER is a bit too reluctant about starting Barbarossa. Since we are now experiencing problems earlier on in the war, we first have to concentrate on this

@ Sigma Draco
Thanks for the enthusiastic and thorough report.

Naval battle settings: For 0.50.16 I have set this value to -0.16. -0.10 goes too far in my opinion (It may help with subs but may penalise surface battles too little)

CVs: 14 Japanese CVs? Did you add up the CVs and CVLs? Japan now gets three converted CVLs by event (but the last one only late in 1942) and the Hiyo / Junyo conversion was not in 0.50.15. This seems a lot.

SCW: there were some other CTDs having to do with other event files, but for 0.50.17 this is hopefully solved
Size of naval forces: We made a change here for Japan (only), but if this helps we will probably change it for other nations, too.

Resources: may have to be reworked. Currently we use the CORE 0.41 resources, modify them for province effectiveness (IC and infra effec) and the round all of them up. This may have to change to rounding them only up under certain conditions.
 

unmerged(133691)

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Tegetthoff;12076181CVs: said:
14 Japanese CVs? Did you add up the CVs and CVLs? Japan now gets three converted CVLs by event (but the last one only late in 1942) and the Hiyo / Junyo conversion was not in 0.50.15. This seems a lot.
Yeah, it does seem a lot. Japan had 14 CVs and 4 CVL on July 19th 1941.
After six months of intense battles they still had 9 CVs and 4 CVL. This was on January 1st, 1942. I only had this in one game though.
 

Amallric

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I have the impression that to solve ressources lack problems, you just increased the infra by a factor of 2 in all provinces with IC/ressources and let the remaining provinces unchanged. This is a bit horrible, I hope you'll come with something better soon.
 

Tegetthoff

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I have the impression that to solve ressources lack problems, you just increased the infra by a factor of 2 in all provinces with IC/ressources and let the remaining provinces unchanged. This is a bit horrible, I hope you'll come with something better soon.

This impression is incorrect. Very.
 

Meothar

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My impressions in my ongoing USA campaign:

1. France, Poland, Denmark, Norway
Worked as intended, Germany conquered them in acceptable time.

2. Africa
After Italy joined the Axis, they pushed GBR to El Alamein, after that, there was more or less a stalemate for a year or so. In 1941, when I joined the war, I shipped 12 arm/mot divisions there and overran the Italians. The UK forces only followed my army reluctantly, often doing nothing. Italy performed no couterattacks, later moved all its troop deeper into the Sahara where they starved. I quickly invaded Sicily and Sardinia.
Negotiations with Darlan failed, and so VIC joined the Axis. The British forces still standing around in Libya didn't move at all against VIC, so I had to send 6 divisions to defeat the French. I manually triggered the event that switches most of Sub-Saharan Africa to Free France later, because I didn't want to chase the scattered VIC divisions through the desert.

3. Croatia
Croatia consist a of large chunk of former Yugoslavia, I would say all of modern day Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina. Germany has a Mediterrean port (the province north of Albania).

4. Italy
Sicily was easily invaded, but I stopped there for a while to get additional divisions to conquer Italy. In summer of 1942, I landed in Napoli with 6 marine infantry units. Together with following 18 motorized and armored divisions I quickly conquered Italy up to the Alps. Italy had only reserve infantry, 2 units of motorized and some garrisons. So nothing to fear. My airforce was not needed, and so helped my fleet to sink the remains of the Italian navy. Until now (beginning of 1943), no surrender event triggered.

5. Soviet Union
Barbarossa started historically, Germany made quick progress until they reached Estonia in the north and Crimea in the south. The fronts didn't move there for a while, then the Germans were pushed back 2 or 3 provinces all along the front. There seems to be a stalemate now. I refused to build Lend and Lease for Russia (but not for Britain). Finland joined Germany, was quickly defeated and switched sides.

6. German navy.
Very minor losses for my convoys. Nothing that gives me headaches.

7. Pacific
Japan conquered China in 1941 or late 1940 and puppeted it. After they declared war on me, they tried to invade Guam several times. I defended the island with 3 marine divisions. When there was a naval assault, I used the battleship fleet to leave the port and sink the invasion fleet. Usually, there were 6-8 transports with 2-5 screens.
Japan launched a carrier attack on the port of Guam once, in the following battle, they lost all but 2 carrierst they got. Later, I sunk several other capitals with my carriers. Japanese navy is now large but is mostly screens and thus uncapable of doing anything productive. They were still successful in invading the Phillipines and Indonesia. I could have prevented this, but my attention was mainly in Europe.
Japan in pushing into India now and slowly advancing.

I built 6x3 carriers (starting in 1936) but no screens. The events provide enough screens and some capitals. However, there are not enough transports, so I built them manually.
My army now consists of 24 armored, 24 motorized, 24 mechanized, 12 marines, 6 paratroopers and around 50 infantry divisions.
My airforce is mostly sitting in the USA since it's useless. The German and Japanese airforce is very inactive and even when they are flying, they deal no damage. GBR can defend herself, so my 16 fighter squadrons are just there to look pretty. My tactical bombers are mainly used for recon now.
 
Last edited:

Amallric

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This impression is incorrect. Very.
What was the logic behind the changes affecting infrastructure then? It's those changes that lead to very undesirable results in the game.
 

Tegetthoff

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The main reason for changing infrastructure was a desire to prevent excessive infrastructure building. So the infra was rescaled over a 0 - 200 range rather than a 0 - 100 range. This can be regarded as a separate issue from the necessary IC and resource rescaling.

First of all IC, infra and resources are determined (for 1936) according to very complicated considerations from League of Nation data. Only Historyman can give you details on how it is done in detail. These data form the direct input into CORE 0.41 for HOI2/ARM.

Now regardless of wether you have an infra scale from 0 - 100 or from 0 - 200, you have to rescale any HOI2 IC and resource values because they are affected by province effectiveness, which is determined by IC concentration factor and infra effect.

In low infra provinces your have to increase the base resource values to get the same values as in HOI2. In high infra and IC provinces you have to decrease those values. If you just read an HOI2 province.csv into AoD, high IC/high infra provinces in Germany and England will get a huge increase and no IC/low infra resource provinces in the Soviet Union will get a huge decrease. So all IC and resource values have to be recalulated for AoD, and IC has to be recalculated recursively.

That´s still fairly straightforward, a province with 10 energy now might need to be reset to 12.2 or 8.7 in AoD. And a province with 1 energy might need to have 1.2 energy in AoD.

Unfortunately it is not so simple, since AoD (and any HOI2 incarnation before) only accepts integer IC and resource values. So we have to round either down or up. If we don`t do anything the code rounds down automatically. Now initially we rounded all values down and got a world-wide resource shortage, leading to the pre-war collapse of several economies. YUG, BUL, British India collapsed, GER and ITA fluctuated wildly.

So we went the other way and rounded up. This resulted in the current situation. We now will have to round up or down, depending on requirements I am not yet sure about. We can also go and pester B-L to provide a logic that permits AoD to read in at least the first decimal of fractional IC and resource values.

Hope this helps,

T.
 
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Tegetthoff

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- When selecting a naval units and then moving the mouse to several islands (Anreanoff, Kiska, Amchitka are some examples) you get an UNKNOWN STRING WANTED. Probably cosmetic, but you may want to check it out anyway.
Can you provide a screenshot?
 

unmerged(133691)

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Can you provide a screenshot?


Apologies for the size :)
It is the naval range that seems to be missing. If you mouse over the sea zone it is fine, when mousing over the island itself it gives the error message.
But like I said before, it's probably just cosmetic.
 
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Amallric

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Thanks for the explanation, I understand the ressources issue better. Still it leaves the infra problem open. The idea to limit infra-building is fine I guess, but the problem in my opinion is that no general rule(at least, that I am able to find out) has been used in order to increase infra values. Some provinces that had the same infra in CORE for 1.04 can have very different values in the new beta(example Washington and New York had exactly the same, now the first has 160 and the last 192). Also some provinces progressed by a mere 10 or 20 points while others practically doubled their already high infra...Paris went from 89 to 150 while Troies went from 53 to 73. Even in relative values the difference is great. Before, values of infra were rather close, especially in one particular area, now they are very spread out without reason.
And infra also impacts TC and unit speed so it's not negligible. Maybe if a single, unique modifier was applied to all infra values from CORE Arma it would be easier to track down and counteract various side effects it generated, and also could help solving the current ressource problems.
 

Denniss

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Missing entries in mod-CORE2/config/world_names.csv

AREA_WEST_ALEUTIANS;
AREA_GREENLAND;
AREA_RYUKYULAND;
AREA_CEYLON;
AREA_SOUTH_NEW_HEBRIDES;
AREA_HOKKAIDO;
AREA_EAST_BENGAL;
AREA_NORTH_BURMA;
AREA_KRA_PENINSULA;
AREA_CENTRAL_SOLOMONS;
AREA_NORTH_BISMARCK_ARCHIPELAGO;
AREA_NORTH_NEW_HEBRIDES;

REGION_EASTERN_CANADA;
REGION_WESTERN_CANADA;
REGION_NORTHERN_CANADA;

I believe I catched them all, please try the attached file
 

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HistoryMan

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The Infra changes are deliberately non-linear - a linear increase would just make some of the formerly difficult terrain provinces far too easy to use now. The idea was that the "best" provinces (most developed - typically large cities such as London, New York, Berlin) would be somewhere close to the 200 level (since we don't think you could do a lot more to them, in the time frame), whilst we still wanted deserts and ice tundra to be very hard to move across. The Infra calculation is based on the tech level of the nation (or even the province), how many IC & Resources it has, population, military installations, terrain, even weather patterns, coastlines, ports, and more stuff as well.

Tim