Cooks and Kitchens not working as intended - save files

[Fifnaril]

Hello!
We are investigating the bug reports we are seeing about Cooks and Kitchens not working as intended. If you experienced this bug in one of your prisons, we would appreciate it if you could upload the save file here.

 

[Minerva718]

Hi. I confirm the problems that have already been reported. Can't play. Prisoners don't go to eat, they don't go to the patio and to visits. The staff room requires the soda machine when there are already two! What happen?!?!?

 

[jjwalker]

This bug has been around WAY before paradox acquired the IP for the game, but it became more apparent when the default regime was changed.

Move your chow times further apart, like 8am and 5pm. When chow time is too close together (12pm and 5pm) the cooks will leave food on the cookers and stop cooking until that food is manually dumped by the player. I experienced this bug in the introversion days when scheduling three meals a day, and it messes the cooks schedule up and they either leave food on the cookers or will not clean trays.

As Mr. Lawton said, morning chow starts at around 6-6:15am and prisoners eat 3 times a day. In a certain US state, chow is lunch and dinner only on the weekend, depending on what unit you find yourself at (wardens discretion). The entire unit also doesn't go to chow at the same time. For example, if A building has blocks 1-10 the blocks get sent in a staggered fashion. block one will get sent, and about 10-15 minutes later block 2 gets sent, repeat. This way, prisoners are always moving but the chow hall is also always moving and it keeps fights down. Once you actually enter the chow hall you now have 30 minutes to eat, and the timer starts when you enter the door. It takes usually 15-20 minutes to get through the chow line so typically you have 10 minutes to eat and less than that if the guards are pissy so you eat really fast. You are considered fed when handed a tray regardless if you had time to actually eat it or not as well.

Alas, to work within the confines of the game mechanics, I have found scheduling chow at 7am and 5pm to work the best as a third chow time will cause the bug to appear. I set the regime for 2 hours "eat" and 1 hour "free time" directly after so the prisoners have 3 hours to eat total, but that last hour if they aren't hungry or if they already ate, they aren't stuck in the chow hall contemplating stabbing someone. The bug does not occur when you space the chow times apart as I just stated.

 

[ImOnABoat28]

Please fix this, its stupid

 

[Defective Soul]

p.s. i also use 2 mods (Clearer Needs Icons and Stock Sprite Fix (obsolete) ) and yes, i play downgraded version of this game (because i found newer one hawe too much not needed features)
Also i hawe few differend prisonsbut all they work ok

 

[Defective Soul]

Weirdly but shurely adding few non-min-sec prisoners in jail fixed non-working kitchen, now i need somehow make jaintors work...

 

[jjwalker]

assign them areas via deployment tab based on shifts. For example, my janitors are assigned laundry and cleaning of kitchens + canteens when prisoners are asleep and they are deployed to cell blocks when prisoners are at work, eating.

 

[Sint-Vaffel]

Hello!
We are investigating the bug reports we are seeing about Cooks and Kitchens not working as intended. If you experienced this bug in one of your prisons, we would appreciate it if you could upload the save file here.

Hello

I'm wondering when we can expect a patch for this problem.
It is almost 4 months since you\Paradox said We are investigating the problem.
I think many would have appreciated a little status uppdate on this

 

[Seamania]

Please check my save files

https:// we.tl/t-tQxFNfjIGl

 

[Chiefkage]

Hi!

here's my save after my cooks cooking meals they won't cook anymore even though that still needing reaching demand and also the other canteen supported on my kitchen they won't cook for them also same on the same kitchens they won't cook anymore please fix this problem as as possible or else my prison will be fail because Food need can't meet because this bug and its been months now i can't play it properly because this bug i hope you fix it now

 

[warwall]

any progress?

 

[orangetayo33]

Five months. I can't even... just at least be honest - is anyone going to fix the bug, should I stop asking?

 

[UltimateTobi]

Five months. I can't even... just at least be honest - is anyone going to fix the bug, should I stop asking?

I'd like to know as well.
There has been no proper communication regarding updates.

 

[jjwalker]

I forgot to mention, when I assign janitors based on the deployment shifts, they only seem to break on shift 0 (the white colored default shift). All other shifts they go and do what I assigned while on shift 0, all 150 of them go bounce around aimlessly in a cleaning cupboard somewhere.

And speaking of maintenance and I guess I could just make a mod but, Gardeners and Dog handlers should be immune to the warmth need, their primary jobs revolve around being outside most of the time. If I decide to make a mod for that now that I mention it, I'll let ya'll know.

 

[Nephtyz]

Played the Campain to 2/5, Sequence 5/17. Wanted to retry, stared over and now the kitchen/cantine will not work, even if build propperly

 

[jjwalker]

Played the Campain to 2/5, Sequence 5/17. Wanted to retry, stared over and now the kitchen/cantine will not work, even if build propperly

Just so you know, you need two refrigerators for every one cooker (at default meal setting) and each serving table holds 40 trays and (I believe) 80 meals. The meals isn't really important because you need to base how many you need on the trays available. Also, unless I am blind or you have the checkerboard turned off, those aren't even designated kitchen nor canteen.
Edit: Also, one cooker cooks 20 meals, and you need 1 cook minimum for every cooker. Your tables with benches seats 8 prisoners so...
You can seat 7*7*8 = 392 prisoners. You need 10 serving tables, 20 cookers and 40 refrigerators. Me personally, I add +5 cooks per 20 cookers minimum so 25 cooks.

Oh, and your metal detectors won't work that way... it's prison, they are NOT going to walk through those unless you force them to. They must have a wall adjacent to both sides (or alternatively, if the metal detectors are directly side by side, walls on the outside of each side). If you place them in front or behind a doorway they can sneak around them. Remember, it's prison, think like a prisoner. Are you going to take your shank through those or find a way to avoid it?

 

[Jlad Blind]

Hello, i discovered that this bug happened because Cleared for Transfer DLC active and meals quantity is High.
Disable DLC or change meals quantity to Medium will fix it.

 

[jjwalker]

Hello, i discovered that this bug happened because Cleared for Transfer DLC active and meals quantity is High.
Disable DLC or change meals quantity to Medium will fix it.

That is only partially true. If you click the "recommended" button, then yes this is true, so I suggest to never use that function with the exception of parole cut-off.

What people frequently don't understand, which frankly isn't surprising due to the inherent lack of documentation on it, is HOW to set up a kitchen correctly. I kind of went over it above but let me repeat and expound on that...

Medium Quantity, Medium Variety <- This is MOST common.
-A Cooker will cook 20 meals (10 meals per pot, so 10*2).
- You need an absolute minimum of 1.05 cooks per cooker, no that isn't a typo ( So you need 15 cooks for 10 cookers ).
- You need 2 refrigerators per cooker ( so 10 cookers = 20 refrigerators).
- YOU MUST have garbage bins in the kitchen!!! <- I cannot stress this enough, this is an absolute MUST!
- you need at least 1 garbage bin per serving table in the canteen, 2 is optimal.

Cooks will NOT dispose of old food unless there is a garbage bin with space to do so IN THE SAME ROOM. If the garbage bins become full they also will not dispose of old food. Your construction workers are actually responsible for taking the garbage out, so be careful when you have a giant construction project!

Medium Quantity, High variety <- I use this personally.
- A cooker still cooks 20 meals.
- You need an absolute minimum of 1.1 cooks per cooker (so 20 cooks per cooker).
- You need 3 refrigerators per cooker (so 10 cookers = 30 refrigerators).
And again for posterity...
- YOU MUST have garbage bins in the kitchen!!! <- I cannot stress this enough, this is an absolute MUST!
- you need at least 1 garbage bin per serving table in the canteen, 2 is optimal.

The below stats do not change:
- 1 table with 2 benches seats 8 prisoners
- On Medium and Low meal quantity, It doesn't matter how many meals a serving table holds because you are limited by the fact it only holds 40 trays.

So for example sake, let's say I have 2 rows of tables, 7 tables each...
- 7 * 7 * 8 = 392 <- you can seat a maximum of 392 prisoners.
- Medium quantity, Medium quality - You need a minimum of 20 cookers, 40 refrigerators, 30 cooks and 10 serving tables to serve 392 prisoners ( 392/20 =19.6 so always round up, 392/40 trays = 9.8 so again, always round up).
- Medium quantity, High variety - You need a minimum of 20 cookers, 60 refrigerators and 40 cooks to serve 392 prisoners.

I am not even going to go into High Variety... you practically triple your requirements and it isn't realistic nor feasible.

So if you follow the basic math outlined above, you will very rarely encounter the kitchen bug. I follow what is outlined above and I only get the bug in TWO scenarios that can be easily replicated...
- I have a large prisoner intake during chow time so my prisoner count and meal requirement changes drastically during that time.
or...
- I have a large construction project and nobody takes out the garbage, since the cooks won't do so.

One thing I have been implementing on the last few extremely large prisons I built, I place 40 extra refrigerators near the delivery room in an unzoned room. They stay stocked and as refrigerators in the kitchens need to be restocked, the cooks will go there and restock the refrigerators in the kitchens. It's kind of like a buffer for food storage when the games job scheduler fails for whatever reason.

 

[Jlad Blind]

I am not even going to go into High Variety... you practically triple your requirements and it isn't realistic nor feasible.

Congratulations now you understand food distribution, but there is one thing you didnt know, that you can get 5 health score from Wel-fed, only with High quality and High quantity.

1 meal per day for Small map or 2 meals per day for Large map.
For Large map, 2nd Eat after 6h of 1st Eat, 1st after 18h of 2nd Eat (this make Wel-fed last long and last 4~5 hours for reform), focus reform after 1st Eat, force 2h yard suppressed after 2nd Eat, you will get 10 punish, 10 reform, 5 security, 5 health score (an achieve for old player).

Also more food wasted equal to more truck, so more export per hour (it limit to 1 empty truck per ingame hour for export and garbage), your workshop export reply on delivery truck (isnt empty, usually carry construction material, foods, staff meals, metal sheet, bleach, prisoners uniform, shop good... Etc). More truck offset the kitchen cost and even net you profit.

For cost efficiency, i agree Medium quantity is better due to no food wasted, but better saving in other place like cell capacity, like you can basically double to triple your Cell capacity by Holding Cell (maxium is 4× capacity but sleep time is a problem after few days by split security regime, each sleep for 3h), @Jlad in discord i will tell you detail information.

 

[jjwalker]

Congratulations now you understand food distribution, but there is one thing you didnt know, that you can get 5 health score from Wel-fed, only with High quality and High quantity.

1 meal per day for Small map or 2 meals per day for Large map.
For Large map, 2nd Eat after 6h of 1st Eat, 1st after 18h of 2nd Eat (this make Wel-fed last long and last 4~5 hours for reform), focus reform after 1st Eat, force 2h yard suppressed after 2nd Eat, you will get 10 punish, 10 reform, 5 security, 5 health score (an achieve for old player).

Also more food wasted equal to more truck, so more export per hour (it limit to 1 empty truck per ingame hour for export and garbage), your workshop export reply on delivery truck (isnt empty, usually carry construction material, foods, staff meals, metal sheet, bleach, prisoners uniform, shop good... Etc). More truck offset the kitchen cost and even net you profit.

For cost efficiency, i agree Medium quantity is better due to no food wasted, but better saving in other place like cell capacity, like you can basically double to triple your Cell capacity by Holding Cell (maxium is 4× capacity but sleep time is a problem after few days by split security regime, each sleep for 3h), @Jlad in discord i will tell you detail information.

You assume I didn't know

I run 2 chows, 2 hours each but with a trick, at 8am-10am and again at 5pm - 7pm.
Here is the trick though, I set the hour immediately after chow as free time so prisoners who got there late for whatever reason can stay and finish eating without having prisoners who are done stuck in the chow hall.

I almost always have 70% well fed and 98% fed. The other 2% is prisoners who choose to talk on the phone instead of eat, or they go to the snack machine.

Don't be afraid of less than 100% prisoners fed, because not all prisoners choose to eat. This is especially true in very large prisons (1000+). I'd say don't worry about it unless that number falls below 80% multiple times.

Edit: Forgot to mention, this is with Medium quality, High variety. So you are only partially correct jlad

 

[Kazahara Khan]

Medium Quantity, High variety <- I use this personally.

me too

- A cooker still cooks 20 meals.
- You need an absolute minimum of 1.1 cooks per cooker (so 20 cooks per cooker).
- You need 3 refrigerators per cooker (so 10 cookers = 30 refrigerators).

Sorry for my terrible english, but:

Why you need 30 fridges for 10 cookers?
For "medium quantity, high variety" you need 2 "portions" (equals the ingredients) per meal.
A fridge can hold 2x20=40 ingredients = 40 portions.
A cooker can hold 2x10 = 20 portions (=10 "meals" at medium quantity)
So, for 100 Prisoners you need 100 "meals"= 200 "portions" = 200 "ingredients".
For that you need 10 cookers (can cook 200 portions) and 5 fridges (can hold 200 ingredients).

The ratio of cookers to fridges is fix! its allways 2 cookers to 1 fridge, no matter of the quantity or variaty. (in previous posts in other threads i said something else, but that was wrong!)
The quantity has an effect of how many cookers you need. But that doesnt touch the 2 cookers :1 fridge ratio, cause a fridge always can hold 40 ingredients and a cooker always cook 20 portions. A cooker doenst cook more (or need more ingredients) when you increase the quantity. So you dont need more fridges per cooker. You just need more cookers. And based on this, you need a few more fridges, but still in the 2:1 ratio. So if u need 5 more cookers, then u also need 2,5 more fridges to supply this new 5 cookers.
But you suddenly dont need more fridges per cooker.

Quantity means only: how many portions are 1 meal:
low: 1 portion = 1 meal
medium: 2 portions = 1 meal
high: 3 portions = 1 meal

The count of the portions of a meal you can see on the trays the prisoners take from the serving table.
If you have "medium quantity", they allwas have two portions on their trays. (and only one at "low" and 3 at "high")
(And the variety has an effect of how many different sorts of food the prisoners can choose for their meal, so they can choose different sorts of portions, if they want. You can see this also on their trays.)

Fazit: The basic ratio is allways 2 cookers : 1 Fridge.

You can check this easy ingame: See in your Logistic menu how many meals are needed for your next mealtime and then observe your cooks.
If you need 100 meals in medium quantity/high variety, they will take 200 ingredients from the fridges (so 5 fridges are enough) to the cookers
Then the cookers make 200 portions. (they also will take 200 ingredients for "medium quantity with LOW variety. but then with just one sort of ingredients)
You also need 200 serving table slots for this 100 meals. So you need minimum 3 serving tables (3x80 slots) in this case.

Of course its better to have more fridges, so u have a buffer for upcomming mealtimes. But 30 fridges for 10 cookers is 6x (!) more then basically needed.

EVEN for high/high a 2:1 ratio is theoretical enough (when ur fridges become fully loaded between the mealtimes)
Example for 100 Prisoners:
300 portions needed => 15 cookers (15*20=300) => 7,5 fridges (7,5*40 = 300) (=> 4 serving tables (4*80=320)) ... viola.
Again: A buffer of a few fridges would be better, cause often the fridges are not full with 40 ingredients.
But in ALL cases a 1:1 ratio should be more then enough, if your supply chain integration is working.


Greetings