Convoy Raiding in 1.3

[dilk]

Hi,

just wanted to ask if anybody yet made experience with submarine warfare in 1.3
are the subs now worth to research and build?



Thx

 

[unmerged(172138)]

I have 8 woolfpacks operating from French ports. each with 6 subs in them. tech and upgrades are 1940.
I am sinking arround 10 allied transports per month, not too much effecitve.

 

[unmerged(176527)]

Take Marseile and place 4 naval bombers. Espacially in Skerks channel you can sink more than 16 subs can do in atlantic.

 

[flecha224]

I have 8 woolfpacks operating from French ports. each with 6 subs in them. tech and upgrades are 1940.
I am sinking arround 10 allied transports per month, not too much effecitve.

I have just 3 packs of 2 subs, total 6 subs and Im siknking 10 transports per week at least

 

[Van Diemen]

I have just 3 packs of 2 subs, total 6 subs and Im siknking 10 transports per week at least

I once tried the 6 subs in a fleet tactic and I didn't sink a lot, however when I changed to the 3 subs per fleet tactic the results were much better. Still, when the allies are going to massively escort their convoys subs get a really hard time and aren't worth it IMO. Only just at the beginning of the war when the allies don't have enought escorts, you can really sink a lot without any damage to your own subs.

Also convoys and convoy escorts are still too cheap compared to subs!

 

[unmerged(172138)]

I have just 3 packs of 2 subs, total 6 subs and Im siknking 10 transports per week at least

Where are you hunting?

 

[dilk]

so as a conclusion one can say that strategic warfare via convoy raiding is still not working.
I mean even if subs were MUCH more cost effective (sunk convoys per sub) and if e.g. GB wouldn't have ressource stockpiles that allows them to have enough for feeding teir industry for years, convoy raiding still is a micromanegement nightmare (even compared to HoI 2)

 

[flossy]

My observations so far ('36 GER game now in '45) is that subs are useless, they get kicked around in all naval battles and convoy raiding is useless. I've used my subs as spotters and cannon fodder while my CV's and BB's take care of the fighting.

 

[MIKEBRUNO]

Subs

Subs work for me - make sure they are 2-3 per pack, and they have good equip.

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Subs work for me - make sure they are 2-3 per pack, and they have good equip.

Makes me wonder if there is some sort of "stacking penalty" when it comes to convoy raiding in the game.

Historically, the most successful convoy raiders were lone vessels or operating in small groups.

 

[Thurak]

so as a conclusion one can say that strategic warfare via convoy raiding is still not working.

It is strategic warfare. Don't judge it by the very tactical statement so and so many transports per week.

One really needs a whole game to judge the effectiveness. In 1.2 Germany could sink all British transports (as the AI built transport fleets instead of convoy transports) with subs and bombers and therefore Germany could prevent the precious rare and oil deliveries to Britain and as the stockpile is now limited Germany could cripple UK effectively.

Maybe it was/is far from cost effective, but in a more or less historical way - sending out subs in the Atlantic.

 

[unmerged(144305)]

If you've had any GOOD results with convoy attacking, please let us know.

Should I perhaps do it with surface ships?

I'm of the opinion that because Convoys are so cheap and fast to build, subs are a wasted diversion of resources for Germany. I'd rather use NAV and older surface ships. It costs less in research and has more versatility (subs are only useful for convoy attacking nowadays).

The caveat to subs being useless is this: Is the UK rebuilding its convoys? If it's not, then even slow attrition will have an impact.

Can anyone speak to that in their games? Does the UK rebuild convoys? Does it escort convoys with the Royal Navy (because this would make it a little safer for the Kriegsmarine to venture forth).

 

[Oscu]

Where are you hunting?

Somehow I got a mental picture of two fisher men talking about their catches

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Did someone call Blue Emu?!

 

[Mendeth]

if you can get Nationalist Spain or Portugal into the Axis, try sending subs or NAVs (I've had more success with subs in my first 1.3 game) just northwest of Spain. Its easier to base them in Spain (hence the need for either NS or Portugal to be in the Axis) and send them out that way. Though losses will occur, I tend to sink quite a few transport ships (at least 15-20 per month if not more)

 

[flecha224]

Where are you hunting?

North of spain, west of france near from the channel

 

[krieger11b]

Sounds like a good reason to test Battlecruisers for sub warfare

I always love an excuse to build them, alas I rarely do.

 

[unmerged(100543)]

I haven't tried since 1.1, but cruisers have the same issue w/ killing convoys that subs do... They cost too much to repair compared to the amount of convoys they kill - even if they never meet another warship.

As for battlecruisers - they really are intended to kil cruisers preying on YOUR shipping.


On a sidenote, I'd really love to see transportation of supplies/raw materials cost something - with shipping by sea (costal) costing SIGNIFICANTLY less than overland shipping. This would make convoys much more important to countries other than UK/Japan. As it is, the US hardly feels the effects of loss of shipping when it has no forces overseas. The loss of seaboard and coast to coast shipping would be a devestating loss to the economy in real life.

 

[unmerged(148761)]

As for battlecruisers - they really are intended to kil cruisers preying on YOUR shipping.

Battlecruisers- well, to be specific the ones from Germany, the main builder of battlecruisers during the period- were designed for convoy raiding. The idea was for them to be fast enough to outrun battleships and strong enough to fight off cruisers while they were on long range hunting patrols. This was the design for Scharnhorst and Gneisnau and was what they speant most of their careers trying to do (the same with the German "pocket battleships" that are represented as heavy cruisers in game). But historically they were too easy to find and were never nearly as good at the job as submarines were.

 

[Alex_brunius]

It is strategic warfare. Don't judge it by the very tactical statement so and so many transports per week.

One really needs a whole game to judge the effectiveness. In 1.2 Germany could sink all British transports (as the AI built transport fleets instead of convoy transports) with subs and bombers and therefore Germany could prevent the precious rare and oil deliveries to Britain and as the stockpile is now limited Germany could cripple UK effectively.

Maybe it was/is far from cost effective, but in a more or less historical way - sending out subs in the Atlantic.

Sinking more IC (in convoy replacements) then you lose on repairs is strategic warfare, just like bombing more IC then you lose on repairs with bombers is.

Since each sub is worth 135 convoys in IC you really need to sink to many right now.