Convoy / Escort Numbers

[Alycidon]

Hi,

I'm playing UK for the first time, historical, no mods and my convoys are being battered by Germany.

I've read various threads, watched a few youtube video's and I know (think I know) the sort of ships I need to be building, what no one seems to touch on though are the numbers needed.

I currently have 6 Flotilla's of 6 of the cheapest DD/DE you can make (Gun and Engine only) for actual convoy escort work, they are covering the 6 closest sea regions to the UK.

Then I have 6 flotilla's of 1 CVL (cruiser conversions) carrying 20 aircraft with 6 top rank Destroyers (1940 hulls, sonar, radar, 3 depth charges) to use as hunter killer groups.

I am having some success with the hunter/killer groups in sinking U Boats.

I have messages telling me about convoys being attacked - these are all in those 6 close regions, even though I have convoys going through a pretty much Italian controlled Mediterranean and Japanese controlled Indian Ocean/Pacific. They dont seem to be attacking my convoys?

My convoy escort efficiency is abysmal, literally 2-3% in most cases and it's crippling my ability to transport resources in and supplies out.

On the basis that 36 DE's are giving 3% cover, I'd need crazy numbers to achieve 100%, circa 1,200 or so.

As those sort of numbers are unattainable I'm missing something but I dont know what?

Any help will be really appreciated so thank you in advance.

 

[YellowMoonshine]

Try splitting your fleets, I usually go with 3 DD. More fleets == better convoy coverage.

Use naval bombers to cover the regions where you are having the most trouble, they have decent damage against subs.

Also you can close naval regions to convoys if you are being overwhelmed there. For instance if you close the central mediterranean it will force all convoys to go around africa. It will cost you more convoys to maintain but less of them will be sunk

 

[Alycidon]

Thank you for the answer.

Almost all the attacks are occurring in the English Channel and I have 500 NAVs and 300 CAS on Naval Strike there, plus another 160 NAVS from the Carriers along with some 1500 Fighters for Air Superiority. I am killing submarines but they are pretty relentless so far.

I will split my Convoy Escorts down to 3, that will double the number of groups, hopefully that will help.

One thing I wondered was if I need to cover the entire convoy route or just those areas where enemy attacks are occurring? Is convoy escort efficiency based purely on enemy attacks or how much of the route you can effectively cover? I assumed it was how much of the convoys were arriving at their destination.

Also, is there a notification anywhere when divisions get sunk/destroyed? I tried to move some from UK to North Africa and they disappeared so I know they were lost at sea but there was no notification at all. I could only be sure by checking the division numbers in the army tab and seeing it had reduced.

Same for ships, I know the battle results show them, but right now there is so many, is there a ledger showing what ships I've lost?

I figure there must be, losing ships and divisions would be pretty basic info you'd need to know but I cant find it.

Thanks in advance again for any replies

 

[bitmode]

There is no notification for divisions lost at sea. For ships, there is a button with a skull opening a ledger in the navy overview window.

 

[bitmode]

On the basis that 36 DE's are giving 3% cover, I'd need crazy numbers to achieve 100%, circa 1,200 or so.

As those sort of numbers are unattainable I'm missing something but I dont know what?

Any help will be really appreciated so thank you in advance.

If you point at the 3%, the tooltip should tell you how the game arrives at that number.

The third paragraph should be pretty clear. A TF can usually cover 5 regions and a ship can cover 12 convoys. Coordination skill can somewhat improve these numbers.

I'm suspecting your problems lie in the lines above and below. If your ships need to go for repairs or get pulled into combat, they are not counted as ready, pulling down your readiness percentage. If your escorts are already struggling anyway against subs, the readiness will pull down the efficiency even further.

Secondly, the escorted convoy count is probably much higher than you were expecting. The above screenshot is at Jan 1 '36 and with just two sea zones. In your situation the count is likely in the thousands, even beyond the UK's total. Convoys being recounted fully in each region clearly makes no sense but that's how it is.

 

[Cavalry]

with large number of convoy, UK need escort about hundreds DD. Research the doctrine to boost escort efficiency. Re route the convoy to reduce sea zones, try buy everything from the US.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

what no one seems to touch on though are the numbers needed.

When it comes to numbers, there are several things to consider:
1. Mission Efficiency. This sets minimal amount of escorts (purely based on convoys going through the zone) for them to react to threats instantly. Values below 100% mean that escort will have delayed reaction, which can be critical in some cases (or completely irrelevant). Do note that Efficiency takes time to build up for newly-assigned TFs - usually, takes them a couple of months to max out (maybe less; been a while since I observed the process).
2. Amount of traderoutes. While tradroute can only be attacked once at any given time, escort TF can only participate in a single battle at any given time, so amount of traderoutes going through the zone determines ideal amount of escort TFs you want to have (realistically, you only want as many TFs as raiders, but that requires intel and constant monitoring).
3. Amount of allocated convoys. When raiders "generate" themselves a battle out of a random(?) traderoute in the zone, they fight something like 10% (never really dug that deep, myself - might actually be a slightly different number) of convoys allocated to that particular traderoute. Ability to fully screen that determines ideal amount of escorts in TF.

 

[Panther G]

Go on the offensive with ASW DDs in combination with a reconnaissance CL, like these:

I would use at least 12 in 2 groups of 6 each on patrol in the sea zones, where the subs strike, or as an alternative on convoy escort mission.

In my current game 12 of these ASW DDs were in a battle with 37 subs I, they have sunk 17 of them!

One CL on "don't attack" on patrol in the same zone.

I would upgrade both with radar III, once it is available (I don't use radar I and II). Make sure sonar is in the left slot, so the radar slot is free.

This video is also great:

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Go on the offensive with ASW DDs

In my limited experience, this does not work that well compared to allocating similar mount of IC to a token screening force: latter, at least, ensures something gets through; hunting sub3+ without screening tends to starve you out (which, usually, includes fuel). If you got screening set up and spare IC afterwards - sure, it's quite a reasonable thing to do, but since the question was about screening...

 

[Panther G]

In my limited experience, this does not work that well compared to allocating similar mount of IC to a token screening force: latter, at least, ensures something gets through; hunting sub3+ without screening tends to starve you out (which, usually, includes fuel). If you got screening set up and spare IC afterwards - sure, it's quite a reasonable thing to do, but since the question was about screening...

The early subs can be sunk with this combination in SP at least until the end of 1941. Screening is no solution in my opinion, because it does not mean, that the subs don't fire torpedos. They can even fire torpedos while retreating. So I do hunt and sink almost all enemy subs and then versus the AI there is no more convoy protection necessary. I would call the ASW DD the most important ship type, because of this role.
Just try a group of 6 versus a 15 sub stack, it is amazing, what they can do. And even more, once they have reached veteran status.

 

[Alycidon]

Thanks for all the replies!

Lots and lots of helpful info there!

I played a bit tonight, made lots of convoy escort groups of 3 DD's which actually highlighted a failing in the UI..... you can only have about 7-8 groups per command before it gets difficult to click on individual ones and the fleet icons are way too limited to quickly be able to identify your groups. I've seen some mods that add more icons but really, something as basic as this is something Paradox (in my opinion) should address.

I've probably made the changes in this game too late, I have just 200 convoys and I dont see I can build them fast enough to counter the losses and build up to a good number again.

That said, I think I will play through to the bitter end, I am learning so much about the naval warfare side right now and I'm a pretty slow player, I like to micro and catalogue everything and with the expansion seeming to be close I think I will wait for that before starting a fresh game.

Thanks again for all the replies and help, it is really appreciated.

 

[Mister Analyst]

I played a bit tonight, made lots of convoy escort groups of 3 DD's which actually highlighted a failing in the UI..... you can only have about 7-8 groups per command before it gets difficult to click on individual ones and the fleet icons are way too limited to quickly be able to identify your groups.

You might consider assigning "hotkeys" to group some of your task forces. Per the HOI4 wiki naval hotkeys:

Left click on a Task Force to select it or left click while holding Shift to select multiple Task Forces. Then, while holding down the Ctrl key, press a number key 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0. This process assigns the pressed number as a hotkey for quickly selecting a Task Force or combination of Task Forces. Tip: pressing a number hotkey twice will center the map on your assigned unit(s).

The same process can also be performed for air wings and for army groups and army divisions per the HOI4 wiki hotkeys.