Well, if Europeans land next to a pagan nation don't they get the option to convert?
Converting to Orthodox...
- Thread starter Jerzul
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Well, if Europeans land next to a pagan nation don't they get the option to convert?
There are events, yes, where having high relations with a Christian nation will cause pagan conversion by province event.
Traditionally, but there were a number of states with Shiaism as the state religion throughout history. Fatimid Egypt and Safavid Persia come to mind. Conversion should certainly be possible, but should be complicated enough to be rare and not used in an unrealistic gamey way.
Changing from Orthodox to Catholic should be possible to do (like the Byzantine Empire tried to do to save itself in its final days), but that too should be complicated and require some quite exceptional circumstances.
With a bit of experimenting, it's somewhat easy to add the decision to convert to the Orthodox religion, or between Sunni and Shiite. If you want to be somewhat more historically accurate (I suppose ) you can add Judaism as well.
The thing is that during this era the Shia/Sunni divide wasn't originally as sharp as it would become when the Safavids transformed the mainstream Shia faith. It was certainly possible to both honor the imams and even Ali without considering yourself a Shiite in Persia and India in the 15th century. The conflict between the two camps would be very much re-actualized by the take over of Persia by a Sufi religious order known as the Safawiya (later they would transform into the Safavid dynasty) which reshaped both Persia and the general conception of the Shia faith a great deal (and also set about mass converting the Persian population to this faith in a rather violent way). This way they could create an element to bind their newly created nation together as well as attract the often shia-leaning quizilbash tribesmen of persia and asia minor to fight in their armies.
In modern times Shia and Sunni followers are all very eager to claim different historical dynasties though, which is why for instance the Black Sheep/Qara Koyunlu are often listed as Shiite despite this being a stretch at best.
The Shiite religion in the game certainly seem to be meant to be interpreted as the militant/nationalistic Safavid faith rather than the less organized Shiite sects before that. Atleast this seems to be the case with the in-game shiite religion as a religion of state. Also far too many provinces are listed as majority Shiite from the start in the game (but given how the vanilla mechanics work that might still be a good idea, we do want Persia to be Shiite, right?
).
Imho shia/sunni state religion conversion shouldn't be allowed other than at the point of a sword. Most of the time people would just leave and join the Safavid armies, this was certainly the case with the shiites of asia minor (and this is why the Ottoman Empire initially had such a problem with the Safavids in Persia, a conflict which would continue to grow even after the Safavids lost their image of religious extremism).
In modern times Shia and Sunni followers are all very eager to claim different historical dynasties though, which is why for instance the Black Sheep/Qara Koyunlu are often listed as Shiite despite this being a stretch at best.
The Shiite religion in the game certainly seem to be meant to be interpreted as the militant/nationalistic Safavid faith rather than the less organized Shiite sects before that. Atleast this seems to be the case with the in-game shiite religion as a religion of state. Also far too many provinces are listed as majority Shiite from the start in the game (but given how the vanilla mechanics work that might still be a good idea, we do want Persia to be Shiite, right?
).Imho shia/sunni state religion conversion shouldn't be allowed other than at the point of a sword. Most of the time people would just leave and join the Safavid armies, this was certainly the case with the shiites of asia minor (and this is why the Ottoman Empire initially had such a problem with the Safavids in Persia, a conflict which would continue to grow even after the Safavids lost their image of religious extremism).
The thing is that during this era the Shia/Sunni divide wasn't originally as sharp as it would become when the Safavids transformed the mainstream Shia faith. It was certainly possible to both honor the imams and even Ali without considering yourself a Shiite in Persia and India in the 15th century. The conflict between the two camps would be very much re-actualized by the take over of Persia by a Sufi religious order known as the Safawiya (later they would transform into the Safavid dynasty) which reshaped both Persia and the general conception of the Shia faith a great deal (and also set about mass converting the Persian population to this faith in a rather violent way). This way they could create an element to bind their newly created nation together as well as attract the often shia-leaning quizilbash tribesmen of persia and asia minor to fight in their armies.
In modern times Shia and Sunni followers are all very eager to claim different historical dynasties though, which is why for instance the Black Sheep/Qara Koyunlu are often listed as Shiite despite this being a stretch at best.
The Shiite religion in the game certainly seem to be meant to be interpreted as the militant/nationalistic Safavid faith rather than the less organized Shiite sects before that. Atleast this seems to be the case with the in-game shiite religion as a religion of state. Also far too many provinces are listed as majority Shiite from the start in the game (but given how the vanilla mechanics work that might still be a good idea, we do want Persia to be Shiite, right?
Imho shia/sunni state religion conversion shouldn't be allowed other than at the point of a sword. Most of the time people would just leave and join the Safavid armies, this was certainly the case with the shiites of asia minor (and this is why the Ottoman Empire initially had such a problem with the Safavids in Persia, a conflict which would continue to grow even after the Safavids lost their image of religious extremism).
You forgot about the Hashashin.
i think that there is a historicity issue at hand. the reason that one cannot convert from orthodox to christianity, or vice versa, is because of the great schism in the christian church. long before the games timefrime, the pope had a large disagreement over how religion should be preached and how liberal they should be with how you follow the faith. the catholics took the liberal side, and the orthodox took the... well, orthodox (normal, hence, conservative side)
unless you expand the timeline to 1965, when the pope met with the patriarch of constantinople that nulified the schism.
unless you expand the timeline to 1965, when the pope met with the patriarch of constantinople that nulified the schism.
It's more like the Catholics changed a few minor things and the Emperor used this as a pretext to try to make a power grab.
Judaism?
How plausible would that be in the EU3 timeframe? Judaism has never been a proselytizing faith, on the contrary, it has steep entry requirements, so conversion of entire provinces isn't plausible. Well, unless you take the conversion to mean large-scale Jewish immigration, but then, the world Jewish population during the time wouldn't be able to fill up more than a handful of provinces.