Thats cool man. Looked like you had to get that off your chest. Anyway at least I like any chance I get to learn more about history so thanks for the info.
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Thats cool man. Looked like you had to get that off your chest. Anyway at least I like any chance I get to learn more about history so thanks for the info.
Just RP missionaries as general attempts to convert people. Yes, no province was ever covnerted from Islam to Christianity- but there were forceful methods that were used, such as in Spain. But since you can't make Inquisition-type events for the possibilty of forcing every moslem province for any nation, you have to RP missionaires as all the various ways a province's majority religion could be changed.
A new manufactory like a religious college could add to your conversion percentage. But thats not gonna happen.
Please, edit the paragraphs, because it's very hard to read in the way that it is now. BTW,you did a good text.
Mhhh...Thats a tad conflicting though. I could argue that the same amount of persuasion was used in either direction conversion. Back then it was more a matter of religion than to which racial/ethnic group you belonged. Nobles converted out of self interest (keep lands and privildges) and the masses just went along. Those who had a hard religious conviction (the few in general among the general population) just left or feigned conversion. Muslims were more tolerant in the begining but by the late renaisance were as forceful as their christian neighbors.
In Spain, the big masses of Muladines (Iberic stock converted to moslem) had no major problem in turning christian again once the "reconquista" had passed them. Those who resisted migrated more and more southwards and the last remains were force to leave or convert during the 1600' mostly due to fear of being a fifth column for a possible turkish attack.
Preasure and coaction certainly took place but Spain was far from the Hollywoodesque Inquisitorial theme park of massive tortures and burnings.
Yes that was a very interesting read. I never got the Bosnian side of the story, only Serb and Croat. Very interesting Muslim/national identity idea. Any resurfacing of Bogomilism? That would be interesting. Well, thanks very much for sharing.
I'm not claiming that Arabs were the same regarding the conversion of Christians to Islam like the Ottomans were. Even the Seljuk Turks were real cruel in that regard but Ottoman Turks were at least in Bosnia more tolerant as the years went by and they didn't bother the christian population. Bosnia had later on a high level of autonomy but that was only because most of the population cooperated with Turks and Sultans wishes were respected. The tolerance level could be the result of that Autonomy because we were governing ourselves by chosing a Vezir who ofcourse was a Bosnian. There were different stories in Serbia though where Turks were known for burning down whole villages but it was mostly in response to "Hajduks" (Bandits) attacks on Muslim villages and trade routes.
Bogomilism in the other hand has become completely extinct in Bosnia and I'm not sure if it's still present anywhere in the world. 5 kilometars away from my city there is a bigest known graveyard of Bogomils in Europe. I might be able to get some links to some of the pictures showing those graves and headstones.
Bogomilism in the other hand has become completely extinct in Bosnia and I'm not sure if it's still present anywhere in the world. 5 kilometars away from my city there is a bigest known graveyard of Bogomils in Europe. I might be able to get some links to some of the pictures showing those graves and headstones.
Here is one link. Anything that says Radimlja is that graveyard I was talking about. there are more pictures you should be able to go back and fort.
http://www.widar.de/mih/radim07.htm
http://www.widar.de/mih/radim07.htm
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I always thought the hajduks were the resistance groups in Serbia, Croatia and between the Serbs and Croats in Bosnia.
They were calling themselves that but in fact they had only one goal on their mind and that was to plunder. Hajduks never got organised enough to be a resistance group. Those were all small groups from anywhere from 10-200 people without a common leader.
KickBone
Joust some short info
Croats come at Adriatic and Posavina (In bosnia also )in 7ct (600-625/650AD)
Serbs at same time also, or a bite leter to teritory of today Serbia+Kosovo I belive.
Bosnjaks as children of Ilyrians...well then there shuld be SOME relation with Albanians( geneticly,language,culture etc) and as I no there is none at all.
Bogumili as core of Bosnjak people is theory ,good one, but still have some flavs.... one of them is that modern Bosnjaks historians are taking that all Bogumili transformed on islam wery soon after fall of Bosnia, but comonly forget to sey ( at last I got that Impression) that part of them did change to christianty and fight agenst Turks in northern Bosnia ( Jajce and more on "I" from it )
They were later taken all to slavery by Turks and transported with a loth of Croats also taken to slavery somvere in today Turky
( some desert part of it..donth no name sory, numbers with x00 000 are mentioned by Ottoman "pisars")
Also by history records (Ottoman tax book as one of them) Muslims as a religion comunity did not make bigest grup until begining of 18ct when significant number of muslim belivers left Hungary and Croatia (Slavonia) as 1699. war ended, and setled into still Ottoman BiH.
So... by some point ( puting helmet on ) Bosnjaks are part of as all araund, afcorse that Bosnjaks have there one culture and nationality, but it is a bit tricky talking abaut Bosnjak nation as such in midelages, especily before Ottoman anexation of Bosnia.
Joust some short info
Croats come at Adriatic and Posavina (In bosnia also )in 7ct (600-625/650AD)
Serbs at same time also, or a bite leter to teritory of today Serbia+Kosovo I belive.
Bosnjaks as children of Ilyrians...well then there shuld be SOME relation with Albanians( geneticly,language,culture etc) and as I no there is none at all.
Bogumili as core of Bosnjak people is theory ,good one, but still have some flavs.... one of them is that modern Bosnjaks historians are taking that all Bogumili transformed on islam wery soon after fall of Bosnia, but comonly forget to sey ( at last I got that Impression) that part of them did change to christianty and fight agenst Turks in northern Bosnia ( Jajce and more on "I" from it )
They were later taken all to slavery by Turks and transported with a loth of Croats also taken to slavery somvere in today Turky
( some desert part of it..donth no name sory, numbers with x00 000 are mentioned by Ottoman "pisars")
Also by history records (Ottoman tax book as one of them) Muslims as a religion comunity did not make bigest grup until begining of 18ct when significant number of muslim belivers left Hungary and Croatia (Slavonia) as 1699. war ended, and setled into still Ottoman BiH.
So... by some point ( puting helmet on ) Bosnjaks are part of as all araund, afcorse that Bosnjaks have there one culture and nationality, but it is a bit tricky talking abaut Bosnjak nation as such in midelages, especily before Ottoman anexation of Bosnia.
Really good writing and clarification.
But was not this part of Europe christianised already before the slaves came to the country.
The Bogomile "herresy" was defined by the patriarch and the pope in early 10th century, according to "The Byzantine Commonwealth" by Dimitri Obolensky, and spread to both Serbia and Bulgaria. the only place wich resisted both authorities was Bosnia.
We have a northern sample too the province of Eastern Carielia (Kexholms län) and Ingermanland basic orthodox provinces gaine from Russia in the treaty of Stolbova 1617. In this provinces the orthodox priest were one by one replaced by priests educated in Sweden or Finland due to political reasons. The king did not want to have priests educated in Russia with in the borders of the Swedish kingdom.
The attempt to give then the true faith mostly failed during the period under the crown, almost 100 years.