Converting culture in Colonial Nations: can we please get a solution, please

[watchout86]

How do you figure? Is Quebec a colonial nation or annexed to British Canada after the 7 years war in eu4?

In the game, Quebec would be annexed by Britain's colonial nation (Canada). However, since that happened in the late 18th century, French Canada wouldn't even begin to change to Canadian (or whatever) culture until around the end of the game. You could even add additional time to account for separatism disabling the MTTH timer so cases where CNs annexed directly rather than through the annexation of the overlord means there is a period of integration.

The main goal here, though, would be to make cultures in the New World more reasonable. Not an extreme hodgepodge of old world cultures in the new world (such as in the example image a couple of posts above). Instead of "Francian culture" or "English culture" or "Castillian culture" mixed in with various other old world cultures that were either former CNs or exported minorities it would be "French Canadian" or "American" or "Mexican" throughout the whole CN (dependent on the colonial region and overlord country).

It's not a perfect model, but I think it would be an improvement over what is currently represented in the game.

 

[Battlex]

In the game, Quebec would be annexed by Britain's colonial nation (Canada). However, since that happened in the late 18th century, French Canada wouldn't even begin to change to Canadian (or whatever) culture until around the end of the game. You could even add additional time to account for separatism disabling the MTTH timer so cases where CNs annexed directly rather than through the annexation of the overlord means there is a period of integration.

The main goal here, though, would be to make cultures in the New World more reasonable. Not an extreme hodgepodge of old world cultures in the new world (such as in the example image a couple of posts above). Instead of "Francian culture" or "English culture" or "Castillian culture" mixed in with various other old world cultures that were either former CNs or exported minorities it would be "French Canadian" or "American" or "Mexican" throughout the whole CN (dependent on the colonial region and overlord country).

It's not a perfect model, but I think it would be an improvement over what is currently represented in the game.

No I'm literally just asking, if you fire up post 7 years war bookmark, what did paradox do, although obvs might be outdated for when they come to update it.

Monoculture I don't necessarily agree with, maybe with a colonial nation indepdenece war they could merge, as you had new identities founded then, as well as the expulsion of loyalists (one reason for emerging Canadian identity is royalists immigrating post American independence war)

 

[watchout86]

No I'm literally just asking, if you fire up post 7 years war bookmark, what did paradox do, although obvs might be outdated for when they come to update it.

Monoculture I don't necessarily agree with, maybe with a colonial nation indepdenece war they could merge, as you had new identities founded then, as well as the expulsion of loyalists (one reason for emerging Canadian identity is royalists immigrating post American independence war)

I feel like "cultural independence" would typically precede "national independence". Living in the colonies as pioneers is probably a bit different than living in the motherland (even for those that aren't living in large cities), and you'll end up having more in common with your colonial neighbors than with the 'tradition' that was left behind (whether you came to the colonies as indentured servants, slaves, religious refugees, or economic opportunists, or whatever other reason people would have for moving). Or, to put it another way, if a family has lived for multiple generations separated from Europe and growing up in the colonies, they probably have more in common with their fellow colonists than they do people back in Europe. If you define each "generation" as being 20-25 years, that would mean after 40-75 years there is probably a MUCH stronger connection to the "culture" that exists within the colonies than the culture of their great grandparents' home.

 

[frolix42]

Rework Colonial Nations in general and do this as part of it. Last I checked CNs weren't even playable in Ironman. You had to release them as Independent in order to play them.

 

[lunelune2413]

It used to work fine. Sadly since they were just religiously converting and culturally converting expelled minorities, Paradox wanted to do a quick and easy solution instead of giving that province a permanent "Minority" status or a simple "Tolerance of Heretics +4" idea. they just gave the colonies a complete negation to ANY foreign religion. They also for some reason decreased how much culture conversion the colonies do as well :/

This doesn't make ANY historical sense in the case of the natives staying Nahutl, Mayan, Inti or Totemist. I really hope they're changing how the colonies in the Americas work for 1.31. Maybe even something as easy as 3 buttons called "To each their own" "Religious mission" or "Assimiliate fully".

 

[Battlex]

It used to work fine. Sadly since they were just religiously converting and culturally converting expelled minorities, Paradox wanted to do a quick and easy solution instead of giving that province a permanent "Minority" status or "Tolerance of Heretics +4". they just gave the colonies a complete negation to ANY foreign religion. They also for some reason decreased how much culture conversion the colonies do as well :/

This doesn't make ANY historical sense in the case of the natives staying Nahutl, Mayan, Inti or Totemist. I really hope they're changing how the colonies in the Americas work for 1.31.

I mean it does make historical sense that it took a while for all of the interior to become good catholics, as well as it being a more crown project to convert them all to Catholicism rather than immigrants keeping them native for the encomienda system

I feel like "cultural independence" would typically precede "national independence". Living in the colonies as pioneers is probably a bit different than living in the motherland (even for those that aren't living in large cities), and you'll end up having more in common with your colonial neighbors than with the 'tradition' that was left behind (whether you came to the colonies as indentured servants, slaves, religious refugees, or economic opportunists, or whatever other reason people would have for moving). Or, to put it another way, if a family has lived for multiple generations separated from Europe and growing up in the colonies, they probably have more in common with their fellow colonists than they do people back in Europe. If you define each "generation" as being 20-25 years, that would mean after 40-75 years there is probably a MUCH stronger connection to the "culture" that exists within the colonies than the culture of their great grandparents' home.

I mean the working class is likely to stay in, unless sailors, but the upper and middle classes will freely flick between colony and motherland. You do get some identities build that cut across racial or ethnic ties, some mixed ranchers in northern Mexico I forget the name of and the metis for example. But during the American war of independence they stake their claim to Englishness of why they should be represented, as well as using their own local parliaments, afterwards does a new American identity come to fruition, although there would be some follow over English hallmarks, such as hatred of the Irish and catholics

 

[lunelune2413]

I mean it does make historical sense that it took a while for all of the interior to become good catholics

I mean the working class is likely to stay in, unless sailors, but the upper and middle classes will freely flick between colony and motherland. You do get some identities build that cut across racial or ethnic ties, some mixed ranchers in northern Mexico I forget the name of and the metis for example. But during the American war of independence they stake their claim to Englishness of why they should be represented, as well as using their own local parliaments, afterwards does a new American identity come to fruition, although there would be some follow over English hallmarks, such as hatred of the Irish and catholics

I added some stuff to my original comment

And yeah, it took some time. But by 1700 areas like Mexico and Peru were fully Catholic. Unlike in EU4 where they will always remain that way until they gain independence (Where the AI starts going crazy usually).

 

[Battlex]

I added some stuff to my original comment

And yeah, it took some time. But by 1700 areas like Mexico and Peru were fully Catholic. Unlike in EU4 where they will always remain that way until they gain independence (Where the AI starts going crazy usually).

The issue is how do you make the AI wait until then, give a conversion malus that gives way mid game via event, otherwise its likes 20 months per province max at tech 9

Perhaps they changed it so colonial nations tolerate all religions and cultures so that they don't implode under your expelled minorities, they can already get screwed over by the rapid OE you give them with conquest of provinces

 

[lunelune2413]

The issue is how do you make the AI wait until then, give a conversion malus that gives way mid game via event, otherwise its likes 20 months per province max at tech 9

Perhaps they changed it so colonial nations tolerate all religions and cultures so that they don't implode under your expelled minorities, they can already get screwed over by the rapid OE you give them with conquest of provinces

That was their intention, but I would say this to that. Give the target province a modifier then or make their tolerance only apply to Heretics would work better than the current system.

 

[RaccoonCity]

@Johan is this going to be in Leviathan???

 

[RaccoonCity]

Hello?

 

[lunelune2413]

Hello?

Double posting won't gurantee a response

 

[Big Bad France]

I think it would be a lot better if some mechanic automatically converted culture over the course of several years to something different than the natives but also different to the homeland of the colonizers. Maybe even throw in a few events to describe diseases, etc, that speed the process from time to time.

 

[RaccoonCity]

Okay, so @Groogy confirmed in the stream that we still cannot convert culture in our CN provinces...

 

[- ee -]

i don't know if it's a simple fix or not when coding but i think a simple solution would be changing colonial nations idea on religious tolerance to a missionary bonus and cheaper culture conversion. another idea would be adding events that link to your colonial policy which could convert a provinces religion or culture. also they could just make it so that when a colonial culture emerges it becomes a sort of melting pot for native cultures that influence it.