Though if you're Bosnian, Atridij, it is probably "customary" among the muslims in your country to go shopping in one of your suggested outfits. 
Conversion to Islam contradictions?
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Though if you're Bosnian, Atridij, it is probably "customary" among the muslims in your country to go shopping in one of your suggested outfits.
You would be amazed by amount of choices we have for such a small country like ours.
Bringing up scantily dressed harem girls was kinda inevitable when you put anything connected to Islam in a grand strategy game and bunch of men with their own fantasies of their personal collections of "mounts".
What about instead of having just culture we add ethnicity as well in?
Just as you can do in the Ruler Designer DLC.
Just as you can do in the Ruler Designer DLC.
While wearing veils CAN be something cultural
It is most definantly IS part of the religion of islam.
Originaly it was only legaly mandatory for mohammeds wives. But because the arab muslims lived after his example. It quickly became an arab muslim thing. When they conquered other lands and introduced islam. An islamic requirement for becoming muslim is WEARING arab/muslim clothes. And in arab culture the veil had become so popular that is was basicly standard dress. Thus when you converted, you had to take on standard arab dressing including the veil because if you didn't take on islamic dress you were considered an heretic.
So while it is not legaly mandatory to wear a veil according to the quran.
It is mandatory to wear muslim clothes if ur a muslim.
And since all female arab muslims wear the veil, you are mandatory to comply to this ethnic/cultural standard.
The turks were only recently converted in the 10th-11th century. It is natural that they wouldn't adopt islamic dress immediately but rather progressively.
The hadiths (established since 9th and 10th century) are quite clear on this matter that no muslim man or woman is allowed to dress like a kafir and any imitation of wearing such garments is considered blasphemy and against islam. The whole concept of "egalitarian islam" was to break down nomadic distinctions and turn everyone into a single ethnicity under islam. To reject the islamic clothes was to reject the principles of islam and therefore heretical. Every muslim was expected to wear muslim clothes, failing to comply was simply heretical.
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This is an unusual thread...
Bizzare claims I have heard about Islamic clothing before:
- Arabs invented the turban
- Muhammad wore a Pakistani kurta-pajama
- turbans without tails are EVIL!!!
- Pre-Islamic Arabs liked to walk around with their robes pulled up at the front to show their, uh, swords off to each other, before Islam abolished this fashion
- It's possible to fit large objects in a turban and smuggle them into places
- Arrogant Arabs liked to walk around with their robes trailing along the ground, so humble Muslims must pull them up really high to show off how humble they are!
- Headscarves and veils are the same thing
- face-covering veils were invented by good pious Muslims
- face-covering veils were invented by evil, immigrant invader Muslims
- Muslims must carry swords at all times, and the PC-establishment allows this! Broken Britain!
- Wearing trousers is imitation of the kuffar! But wearing a turban is not...
In all seriousness, I think the current setup is largely okay, all things considered. It would be quite a lot of effort to make a working setup that mixes clothing and appearance based on religion as well as culture. I can imagine a civilisation of Muslim Italians or Russians keeping their traditional dress but modifying it somewhat to indicate their identity. I can also imagine their traditional clothing being completely changed.
Bizzare claims I have heard about Islamic clothing before:
- Arabs invented the turban
- Muhammad wore a Pakistani kurta-pajama
- turbans without tails are EVIL!!!
- Pre-Islamic Arabs liked to walk around with their robes pulled up at the front to show their, uh, swords off to each other, before Islam abolished this fashion
- It's possible to fit large objects in a turban and smuggle them into places
- Arrogant Arabs liked to walk around with their robes trailing along the ground, so humble Muslims must pull them up really high to show off how humble they are!
- Headscarves and veils are the same thing
- face-covering veils were invented by good pious Muslims
- face-covering veils were invented by evil, immigrant invader Muslims
- Muslims must carry swords at all times, and the PC-establishment allows this! Broken Britain!
- Wearing trousers is imitation of the kuffar! But wearing a turban is not...
In all seriousness, I think the current setup is largely okay, all things considered. It would be quite a lot of effort to make a working setup that mixes clothing and appearance based on religion as well as culture. I can imagine a civilisation of Muslim Italians or Russians keeping their traditional dress but modifying it somewhat to indicate their identity. I can also imagine their traditional clothing being completely changed.
Actualy I did, but found it neccessary to reiterate some points. Specificaly the legality of wearing the islamic dress and the adoption of veils and arab clothing as practicaly standard muslim wear. It just bothers me that some people are trying to take the ultra-liberal islamic point of view of which there is no real basis for.
Just like contemporary islamists who claim that jihad is nothing more than an internal struggle. While in fact its use of the word is practicaly the equivelant of ''crusade'' in both definitions. Crusade also means a pilgrimage for piety or an internal struggle to overcome, the equivelant of the islamic smaller jihad. The external crusade is the exact same as the muslim jihad. I'm just glad PDS didn't fall in this trap.
Not intended to disturb your nice little discussion , but i just read this on another forum:
and related to the game
....now go on.
and related to the game
....now go on.
I wonder in which thread have you been in...
Actually this guy nails it. They should apply the same pattern which exists with ALL European "convert nations" IRL(Bosniaks, Albanians, Andalusians, Volga Bulgars if you wanna be generous).
I wonder in which thread have you been in...
Nah, that's not from this thread. Just things I've heard in general.
The sword-at-all-times certainly comes from the Sikh blunt dagger incident or what it was, where a school wanted a Sikh boy to disarm and he refused and it then went higher up until he was allowed to keep his dagger. But given how Sikhs wear turbans and beards, it is easy for the simpletons to jump to conclusions (boy = dagger ----> man = sword... boy am I brilliant!).
Aw damn... I got linked to this from another thread, didn't notice the date. And it was short enough that it could have popped up in the time between me coming here.
Indeed. It's a little bizzare to see when doing an Islamic world conquest. I wouldn't mind having a melting pot culture for certain regions of Europe that makes them Arabized, maybe Arabo-Latin, Arabo-Slavic, Arabo-Germanic, Arabo-Finnic, ect. Probably more in the realm of a mod, but still cultures should start to shift when they get a somewhat incompatible religion mixed in.
I wasn't really talking about a specific incident, it was from a BNP cartoon I saw. Still the Sikh kirpan 'issue' (there isn't really an issue any more, in the countries with large Sikh populations it was resolved decades ago and nothing's happened since) often gets confused with the whole Islam debate thing.
Could do a whole list of funny myths about Sikhs as well though, but it would kind of be OT. The amount of times I've heard people say "Sikhs must carry a knife to defend themselves against Muslims" is just ridiculous, however.