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unmerged(4271)

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Jun 6, 2001
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(sigh) You know, after I posted my last message I saw that "tern" thing and considered editting it, but thought no one (Well, to be completely honest, I though maybe Hajji) would actually call me on it. Oh me of too much faith....

But let's get back on topic, chop - chop, while I go and see if I can't find some delicious skate-fries for lunch.
 

unmerged(1522)

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unclebryan said:
There is a lot of information already available, but we would need to know the size of the provincial budgets in Eutopia. We know how much they raise in income tax, but do they have other revenues and if so how much?
I have no idea, and I think it's debatable whether it's all that important to gameplay. In keeping with observation (3), though, if we were truly serious about using cross-national comparisons as a yardstick for constructing "realistic" budgets, there would be no way we could even try to answer questions of the above sort without first doing major research into budgeting processes in any number of RL countries. At which point the whole process would become ludicrously complex and, in all probability, rather dreary for most people. :)
heagarty said:
And it would also contribute some yet-to-be-determined amount of revenue, unless run on a not-for-profit basis.
Revenue from Recom is currently 21 billion a year (see revenue section of fiscal projections).
 

unmerged(4271)

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Voting: Gun Design

Melanchthon, please open a voting thread for the following topic:

Proposal for a specific hand gun design as suggested by EstonianZulu


The BM Drachem 01

Recoil operated, locked breech pistol. It is a Browning-type link less locking system with an interlocking barrel. Dual action (Semi and full auto) pistol. Select fire based off Glock 18 Law enforcement weapon. 12 round 9.mm, with expanded clip rises to 25.

Original model made of steel, making the weapon very heavy but nearly indestructible. Slightly difficult to take apart for quick repairs, but also very hard to damage or wear. The weight also adds to the accuracy, and the easy control. Recoil is low, but the rate of fire is not exceptionally high.

Pluses- Heavy and reliable. Hard to damage, and excellent accuracy
Negatives- Heavy not as fast as other modern weapons. Has problems in extreme climates.

No amendments made by author or players.


- heagarty
 

unmerged(4271)

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Voting: Criminal Code

Melanchthon, please open a voting thread for the following topic:

Proposal for adopting the Austrailian Criminal Code as the Model Criminal Code for Eutopia as suggested by Voshkod


The Austrailian Code

Eutopia needs a criminal code of some sort. This was something I was planning to work on when I ran Napier as my character. Instead of creating one out of whole cloth, I suggest we adopt an existing one. My recommendation is Australia's, for a couple of reasons:

1) It's recent - updated last in 1995

2) It's from an island - like Eutopia

3) It's from a liberal democracy - like Eutopia

4) It's code, as opposed to case, based - less "legal" research required.

The 1995 Australian criminal code can be found at http://scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/pasteact/1/686/top.htm

Some parts of it might not be relevant, or may have been superceded. For example, it has a section on espionage, which is already covered by an existing Eutopian law. The sections on things like "harming Australians" would have to be read "harming Eutopians," as well. But it would provide us with a preexisting legal framework which we could then modify in the Legislature.

No amendments made by author or players.


- heagarty
 

unmerged(4271)

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Topic: Lira

Just a note in regards to this section:

The Air component of the LIRA is the Flight Battalion, commanded by Lt. Col Morris, and is comprised of 3 squadrons of 12 UH-60L Blackhawk or equivalent (VALKYRIE); 1 squadron of 12 OH-6 reconnaisance helicopters or equivalent (HARPY); 24 CH-47C Chinook medium transport helicopters (to be remanufactured to CH-47D/acquired when the embargo is lifted); 12 AH-1W Super Cobra attack helicopters (to be remanufactured to AH-1Z when the embargo is lifted, or replaced by 12 AH-64 Apache).
The Flight Battalion gives the LIRA the chance to do its job, and also adds extra recon and devastating attack potential to the LIRA's actions.

It may be hard to reconcile this with the current state of Eutopia's military, much of their equipment is in disrepair and there is an embargo preventing the purchase of more.

However, if this is something everyone is fine adopting, we can possible make some exceptions and have some way of getting most of this equipment into the game.

Busco, any changes or amendments based on the feedback from other players? If not, we can take a vote on it.
 

Voshkod

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Topic: LIRA

How about saying it exists, but putting it's equipment in the same state of disrepair as the rest? Another reason to push for lifting the embargo.

[EDIT] Given your data in the CJS thread, the Army chopper units are in pretty good shape, as well.
 

The_Hawk

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TOPIC: Handgun proposal

heagarty said:
No amendments made by author or players.

Er, due respect, heag, but I seem to recall making a suggested modification to this (i.e. the removal of the reference to full autofire capability.)
 

unmerged(24047)

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Well, i tihnk it could be easier to say that the reform Parachute---->Heliborne was planned, but not completely done due the well known problems of the Eutopian helicopters.

Even if in good shape, the helos are not enough for the plans, so let's just pretend that the LIRA started the joint training with the helo crews, but they still mostly stick to the traditional training. The full heliborne capability will be reached in the future.

Would that be ok? I think yes, because in most of the world's armies, reforms and new directives take time to be fully put in practice.
 

unmerged(24047)

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heagarty said:
Busco, any changes or amendments based on the feedback from other players? If not, we can take a vote on it.

No, i think the budget problem (much more pressing) absorbed the attention...but anyway i still need a logo as i said already, i asked if that would be ok for me to add a "history" part to the document. The history would be a small recap from the creation of the Eutopian Paras (i'd say during the neutrality phase of WW2), their partecipation in Operation Dragoon in southern France (i think that could make sense). Any other ideas?
 

unmerged(4271)

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Busco said:
No, i think the budget problem (much more pressing) absorbed the attention...but anyway i still need a logo as i said already, i asked if that would be ok for me to add a "history" part to the document. The history would be a small recap from the creation of the Eutopian Paras (i'd say during the neutrality phase of WW2), their partecipation in Operation Dragoon in southern France (i think that could make sense). Any other ideas?

I think that sounds fine. Anything specific to Eutopia battles in WWII you may wish to submit here, but I promise it won't take as long to consider next time, since it is just building on what you have here.

And I think you can develop a logo, or have people suggest on in the OOC thread without needing to go through all this again. :)

I am submitting this for voting.
 

unmerged(4271)

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Melanchthon, please open a voting thread for the following topic:

Proposal to Create the Light Infantry Regiment (Airmobile) (LIRA)


(UNIT LOGO TO BE DEVELOPED LATER - probably a feather or an harp (like the Guinness' one) 'cause in Latin LIRA means harp)

Sola virtus invicta
"Only virtue stands undefeated"


The Light Infantry Regiment is the long arm of the Eutopian Army.

Highly trained and highly motivated soldiers, they represent a versatile and mobile force, capable of a variety of different tasks:
-air assault
-all terrain rapid re-deployment
-in depth reconnaissance
-support for peace-keeping and public order missions

The Regiment is commanded by Colonel Richard Perry and it's made of two different parts: the ground and the air.

The Light Infantry Battalion is the infantry component of the LIRA.
Commanded by Lt. Col Moore, the LIB is the backbone of the Regiment.
It's 512 troopers are divided in:
|- Alpha Company
|- Beta Company
|- Charlie Company
|- Delta Company
|- Recon Platoon
\- HQ and support Company

Attached to the LIB is a Battalion from the regular Army, on a temporary basis, giving extra-power to the LIRA and increasing the experience of the regular army units.

The Air component of the LIRA is the Flight Battalion, commanded by Lt. Col Morris, and is comprised of 3 squadrons of 12 UH-60L Blackhawk or equivalent (VALKYRIE); 1 squadron of 12 OH-6 reconnaisance helicopters or equivalent (HARPY); 24 CH-47C Chinook medium transport helicopters (to be remanufactured to CH-47D/acquired when the embargo is lifted); 12 AH-1W Super Cobra attack helicopters (to be remanufactured to AH-1Z when the embargo is lifted, or replaced by 12 AH-64 Apache).
The Flight Battalion gives the LIRA the chance to do its job, and also adds extra recon and devastating attack potential to the LIRA's actions.

LIRA's home is in Fairpoint, the unit is based in Fort TO BE DETERMINED , a low-profile installation with annexed all the structures for the training and manteniance of both Ground and Air personnel and equipment.

AMENDMENT BY AUTHOR: LIRA started the joint training with the helo crews, but they still mostly stick to the traditional training. The full heliborne capability will be reached in the future. Some Parachute drop capability remains.

AMENDMENT BY PLAYERS: Some of LIRA's equipment is in disrepair. Operation status of helos are mostly fine, but other aircraft may have serious maintenence issues, due to US weapons embargo and not enough money in military budget.

AMENDMENT BY AUTHOR: The history of the LIRA includes its formation during the months leading up to Eutopia's entry into WWII, while the island was stil neutral. After joining the Allied side, LIRA was active in Operation Dragoon in southern France.


- heagarty
 
Last edited:

unmerged(4271)

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TOPIC: Private Arms Production

Melanchthon, please open a voting thread for the following topic:

Heagarty said:
1) We establish once and for all that private production of military-grade arms is illegal in Eutopia.

2) The production of non-military grade arms (small arms, ammo) is also illegal (just for the sake of simplicity).

3) ENDTech may contract out the production of such items as jeeps, ships, and possibly aircraft, to private firms within Eutopia, but any weapons systems can only be added to them by ENDTech or foreign vendors.


AMENDMENT BY AUTHOR (BASED ON PLAYER COMMENTS): Re-write section "2)" to read as amended in italics: 2) The production of non-military grade arms (small arms, ammo) is permitted, though such industry it is tightly regulated by the government and subject to licensing and inspection.


- heagarty
 

unmerged(4271)

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The_Hawk said:
Er, due respect, heag, but I seem to recall making a suggested modification to this (i.e. the removal of the reference to full autofire capability.)


I asked if EstonianZulu approved your suggestions and he never responded. No other player expressed support for them, either.

However, that may have been out of deference to your opinion, not out of opposition to it.

Your point, and accompanying PM, suggest a clarification is in order. I have suggested a new option to the other GMs. Whatever is decided will be added to the instructions at the beginning of this thread, and will be posted her at the end, in the hopes everyone will see it. :)
 

unmerged(4271)

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TOPIC: Fishing and Shipping

Found these little gems from old dusty threads....

This might provide a little more guidance to what Craig was proposing. it goes beyond just fishing, but I'll add it here in its entirety.

Fishing: mostly small, family-owned businesses; about 135,000 employed overall The fishing fleet is a bit dated, since the industry doesn't produce enough income for small family businesses to keep their equipment up-to-date.

Processing and distribution of catches: mostly in the hands of three major (private) companies which have done well enough in the past, and have always had the funds to modernize their plants on a regular basis. Roughly 30,000 employees.

All in all, the fisheries sector would employ about 165,000 people (roughly 1.5% of the labour force ).

Both family fisheries and processing companies are threatened by increasing competition from European fishing fleets after the NAFA expired in Term 1 (in game terms, that would probably mean that it lapsed roughly eight years ago). ED. NOTE: This was prior to Michael vonStreusser successfully renegotiating the treaty, so some turnaround is likely, though not to pre-lapse prosperity as the new terms are not as favorable.

Forestry: mostly focused on WET and Nueva Rioja; there are two major logging companies and about a dozen medium-sized ones; all of them have done reasonably well, but the influx of cheap Canadian softwood lumber (after the US increased import taxes on Canadian lumber) has become a real problem. Roughly 90,000 employees (about 0.8% of the labour force).

Mining: this is state-owned (Recom). The sector has always generated a significant amount of income for the state, and Recom has accordingly been pampered financially. So, all the latest equipment. Employees: about 55,000, or 0.5% of the labour force .

There may have been some modifications to this, this was still in the early terms of Eutopia II and was only a draft projection, but it seemed helpful so I've reposted it here.
 

The_Hawk

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Note on your ed. note: wasn't one of the (relatively minor) debacles of the Gall administration their failure to ratify NAFA II after MvS got it negotiated?
 

von Streusser

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Oh man, if after slogging through four terms of liquid Hell to get that NAFA II negotiated it winds up being void because Gall didn't ratify it (not that we have ever had really firm notions of who needs to ratify what) I would seriously kill somebody. Or quit. Or just freak out.

:)
 

unmerged(24047)

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From the dust cloud here i come come :D
Directly pasted from the other thread:
------------------------------------------
I was asked to post here a little problem that came to me.
I was in the process of writing and posting the thread on the LIRA, when i came across different versions of the Eutopian history.
Here is stated that Eutopia assumed a neutral stance in WW2:

http://www.europa-universalis.com/f...796&postcount=2

here instead is stated that Eutopia troops partecipated WW2, in the invasion of southern France:

http://www.europa-universalis.com/f...810&postcount=5

Having to write the story of the Eutopian Paras, i ask here if i can add these lines to the history of the LIRA, in wich i talk about the partecipation of the first paras in Op. Dragoon, enrolled in the British Paras:

"On May 14 1943 Eutopia declared war on the Axis. The Armed forces weren't in shape for a full fledged war. Luckily a small group of high ranked officers were ready to look outside of Eutopia for new ideas and new tactics.
The experience of land warfare in North Africa and Southern Italy were absorbed rapidly in the Eutopian forces.
The Marines were trained for amphibious landings, the Airforce worked hard studying the battle of Britain and a small group of 40 volunteers from the Army travelled to Britain to learn the basics of Parachute jumping.
The group trained at Manchester's Ringway airport with the British Paras, and after graduating they came back to Eutopia to pass what they learned to the first unit of Eutopia paras.
The volunteers applications flocked, and a Company (temporarily named Royal Eutopian Parachutists) was rapidly formed, despite the scepticism of many ambients of the Army.
This unit was attached to British 2nd Independent Parachute Brigade Group, 6th Parachute Btl just after the Brigade was retired from the first line in Italy and prepared to another front.
Eutopian Paras dropped with British, French and Americans units over Southern France, during Operation Dragoon (Eutopian Marines took part in the amphibious landing east of St. Raphael, as part of the American 36th Inf Division).
The operation was a success, the Eutopian Paras fought well and proved two things:
-Eutopia could be trusted as an Ally
-the Eutopian Paras were capable of accomplishing their goals, through hard training and dedication.
The Eutopian forces advanced with the Allies northwards, partecipating in no major combats, for being withdrawn back to Eutopia after May 1945."

After this part i go on talking about the following years of the Paras, until the LIRA name took place (very briefly).
What do you think? Does this collides with other background?
---------------------------------
 

unmerged(33865)

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Regarding Eutopian participation in WWII, could you add something about the total number who served in the ETO, and any casualties, particularly the number killed? Also, did Eutopia declare war on Japan as well, even if it didn't participate in the Pacific?

EDIT: Also, Eutopia would have presumably served as a base or emergency landing area for some anti-submarine warfare patrol aircraft, as did Bermuda. Could this be fleshed out, or at least confirmed? Was it merely providing landing fields, or where Eutopians more involved than that in the battle of the Atlantic?
 
Last edited:

Josephus I

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I was always under the impression that we were neutral in WW2....but I'm up for changing history... :)