Constantinople -> Istanbul ?

[unmerged(255)]

Uhm, this is a minor point but I'll bring it up anyways... Since there's no mention in the "list" of players being able to move their capitals, how will the Turkish AI (or human player) move the country's capital once/if Constantinople is captured? The option to change one's capital would be a great touch in any case, but in this instance it is of great historical significance for the EU timeline...

tuna

 

[Dagfinn]

And also important to the Russians...

 

[Zagys]

I'm very interested in how this is resolved. I would be incredibly disappointed if Turkey can't make Constantinople their capital after capturing it.

Didn't the Polish also move their capital during this era, from Krakow to Warsaw?

 

[unmerged(2238)]

Perhaps a situation best remedied with a conditional historical event of some sort?

 

[unmerged(2254)]

What about the "event-builder" they announced?
I would hope it would be possible to define an event like
If (Constantinople.changesOwnership() && Constantinople.newOwner().equals("TUR")) {
Constantinople.rename("Istambul");
Turkey.moveCapital(Istambul);
ByzentineEmpire.setStability(-3);
ByzantineEmpire.toggleCivilWar(5);
}

Maybe this could be coded via some kind of GUI, but I'd think it would be cool having such possibilities. Imagine the scenarios you could create ...

Cadorna

 

[unmerged(362)]

IFAIK the city of Constantinople was officially renamed Istanbul first in 1930.

 

[alvaro]

Yeah! but hat's the good thing of EU. You can change the history!
I am looking forward to have the option to move the spanish capital to Cadiz!

 

[unmerged(28)]

On this question...

It is already thought of and it will be implemented.

Personally I wonder if Constantinople wasn't called 'Rum' in the Muslim World after 1453.

/Greven

 

[unmerged(349)]

And I will move the English capital to Manhattan!

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Greven

Personally I wonder if Constantinople wasn't called 'Rum' in the Muslim World after 1453.

I believe it was called Rum way before 1453 too (e.g. time of the crusades)

 

[unmerged(255)]

Originally posted by Greven
On this question...

It is already thought of and it will be implemented.

Personally I wonder if Constantinople wasn't called 'Rum' in the Muslim World after 1453.

/Greven

Hrm, good question Greven. I was actually more worried about the geographic location of the capital than the name itself. After all, Adrianople (the capital before Istanbul) is in the provence of Thrace as well... But back to your point, although the entire Asia Minor and at later Thrace was called Rum (or Rumeli), I cant say off the bat if the word "Rome" ever referred to Constantinople in Ottoman annals. More often than not the city was called either Konstantiniyye or
Dar-ul-Saadet (Gates of Happiness) As you can tell, the ruling Turkish Ottoman dynasty was not very fond of the Turkish language

tuna

 

[unmerged(592)]

There should be a limit on this. My 734 people province in india isn't going to be the capital of Turkey, no!

 

[unmerged(362)]

Originally posted by Greven
On this question...
Personally I wonder if Constantinople wasn't called 'Rum' in the Muslim World after 1453.

/Greven

The people called themselves "Roum". The byzantine emperors never knew they ruled Byzans. AFATK, they ruled the roman empire.

The sultan in Constantinople had a title as "sultan of Roum" or something like that. Meaning he ruled the Roum nation. But I don't think the Sultans took over the Byzantine claim of being the true heir of Rome.
ICBW of course...

 

[unmerged(485)]

Originally posted by Greven
On this question...

It is already thought of and it will be implemented.

/Greven

This new game is looking better all the time!

 

[unmerged(255)]

Originally posted by Achilles Viggen


The people called themselves "Roum". The byzantine emperors never knew they ruled Byzans. AFATK, they ruled the roman empire.

The sultan in Constantinople had a title as "sultan of Roum" or something like that. Meaning he ruled the Roum nation. But I don't think the Sultans took over the Byzantine claim of being the true heir of Rome.

Ditto! Greek-speaking Turkish citizens of Istanbul are still called "Rum" in modern Turkish and you often hear the same word used in every day language for Greeks of Greece as well.

Mehmed II the Conqueror was the first and the last Ottoman sultan to claim to rule over all the Roum-nation--he even made a considerable effort to capture Rome itself and thus reunite the two imperial cities under his authority. To that end some prelimenary assaults on Italian mainland were made as a result of which parts of Apulia were plundered and the city of Otranto was controlled by Ottomans for almost two years. After Mehmed's death, his plans were forgotten largely due to the devastating civil war between his two sons: Beyazid II and Cem Sultan. By the time of Selim I, Beyazid's son, house of Osman took a definitely Islamic outlook as he vanquished the Mameluks and returned to Constantinople with the title of "caliph."

tuna

 

[unmerged(4777)]

But back to your point, although the entire Asia Minor and at later Thrace was called Rum (or Rumeli), I cant say off the bat if the word "Rome" ever referred to Constantinople in Ottoman annals. More often than not the city was called either Konstantiniyye or

Dar Al Saadet = House of the happy

Rum is Arabic and means initially "Rome". It could be used either to denominate the city Rome, the 2 Roman worlds except 'Ionan' (Hellespont/Greece) and the Arabic territories (even after the fall of Rome) or all which is simply western/christian -any european person or even product could be (and even is sometimes today) called Rumi (Rumi=adjective derived from Rum).
Tn turkish this word seems to have evolved with a somewhat different notion (greece is included)) as shown by tuna
Rum is in fact a too vague term to be used IMHO.

 

[unmerged(255)]

Thanks a lot for the Dar al Saadet correction Mono...

On another note, the only usage of "Rum" for an expanse of territory in modern Turkish I can think of is Rumeli (the land of the Rum) which refers to Turkey-in-Europe. It roughly corresponds to the EU province of Thrace and as a matter of fact "Trakya" and "Rumeli" are used interchangably for the same geographic stretch.

tuna

 

[Emre Yigit]

Please keep it Constantinople, allow change of capital

It was not just the moslems who referred to the Byzantines as "Rum". The emperor at Constantinople pre-13th century would probably have had you flayed if you did not address him as: "Dominus noster N. imperator perpetuus/semper augustus" (pre-8th century) or later in Greek as "N. en Christôi tôi Theôi Autokratôr pistos Basileus Rhomaiôn"... Moreover, when Baudouin of Flandres was crowned emperor (in Constaninople) in 1204, he took the title of "imperator Romaniae."

Hence: Romanorum > Rhomaiôn > Rum (for the empire of the eastern romans)

and the title of Istanbul being "Constantinopolis Nea Roma", I suspect the word Rum could occasionally be used to describe the city.

Pre-conquest common name among the Turks: Konstantiniyye

Other names used: Dersaadet (shortened version of the dar-ül-saadet thingy), Asitane. Does anyone know when the word Istanbul sprang up? It definitely predates 20th century but as to the etymology (is tin poli indeed), I don't know if anyone knows.


BTW, I distinctly remember once seeing an extremely coin of Mehmet II's bearing the legend: Caesar Romanorum et Sultanus Turcarum or some such. Minted in Istanbul, I guess. Does anyone have a gif or link?

But, otherwise, in communications with European powers: "serenissimus et potentissimus princeps dominus Sultanus Xxxx Han, Ottomannorum, Asiae et Graecia Imperator"

 

[Savant]

Hey that is cool!

"serenissimus et potentissimus princeps dominus Sultanus Xxxx Han, Ottomannorum, Asiae et Graecia Imperator"

Greven - can we get titles like this included in any "computer correspondence" with the AI? Can we maybe have an editable file where we can put in our own "grey emminence" title? You know, instead of "My computer" as a game signature?

 

[Derek Pullem]

Change the name of your computer in network settings to change the name of your nation - when I win as Venice I really should be be Doge not PII 400Mhz Derek!