Consorts and Bloodlines

[faiuwle]

ok My Sumenko Empress has 2 bloodlines: her fathers sons of raglabrok and her mothers architect. Shes married to a tengri clansman with blood of atilla. Its a matri marriage. I abducted some irishmen and I have 2 consorts with nine hostage bloodline. My son from tengri dude has 3 bllodlines as you would expect. My daughters father was a consort: she has NO bloodlines. None. Not her dads, not her mothers, not her grandmothers matri and not her granddads patri.

Can you upload your save? The mod I'm making should be able to fix this scenario however it comes about, but I can't reproduce the issue to test it with in my game.

I was also planning to make a replacement for the present debutante decision as part of another mod I'm making, but I might just make it separately.

 

[junassa]

This is one of the very first bugs I reported. I wish we had some dev response one way or the other, but since I'm playing pagan I mean to exploit it to my benefit.

 

[faiuwle]

Do you have a save where you have this problem?

 

[PhalanxSender]

Thats the point: there is NO debutante desc for an enatic ruler. You can get a female holy/noble/commander. You have NO way to generate a random male. I took to converting culture to norse and actively raiding (i was peaceful! LOL!) other religions for men. I was literally abducting any and all men, forcing them into consort to break any existing marraiges then marrying them to my vassals and daughters cos we couldnt generate enough men inside my empire . It was pretty dam crazy tbh.

Enatic needs some major buffs/fixs.

I just use the invite to court option. Using the filters in character finder you can find unmarried men willing to join your court ... then just sort/filter based on trait, invite to court, matri-marry and then make then convert. You might lose prestige depending on rank difference, but then you get to keep your culture.

 

[jwalche]

Here I was complaining that there is no system to generate female commanders, stewards, and priests like for man. Marry your vassal with a commander, and giver her another commander, steward, and priest so she can start her court with good councilors from the beginning. Don't worry that the men are 15-20 years older. Female vassal's child bearing age ends in 45, but men are still useful for breeding through old ages. If she survives past her husband, the world, if not already is, will soon be full of male claimants who want to join your court and find a good wife.

Later when your income goes up and cost for inviting debutantes rises to hundreds for a girl, you can still just pay 25 piety to invite a holy man.

"I was literally abducting any and all men, forcing them into consort to break any existing marraiges then marrying them to my vassals"

And that is what we are supposed to do right? With Equality doctrine, I abduct most of young women and men to give as trophy consorts/concubines for my dynasts. That's what Norse does. In addition, before giving them to my people, I like to first sample female prisoners of noble parents for prestige bonus, and married female prisoners to break their marriages.

Abducting men for consorts is so sweet and kind. A meanie Norse girl would instead make a necklace made of monk-cock like in Netflix's Norsemen.

 

[faiuwle]

If you have enatic clans, those decisions generate women. That's the problem.

 

[Cagliostro]

So, I decided to make a mod to try to fix this (by creating a decision that would give all your bloodlines to all your legitimate dynastic children), but I can't reproduce it. I modded every bloodline in the game to be patrilineal, and then loaded the game as the Chieftess of Daura (in Hausaland) in 867, who has a historical bloodline which is now patrilineal thanks to the mod. I gave myself a consort, and used the console to have a child with him, and my historical bloodline was inherited by the child. I even tried having a bastard whose real father was known, and the bastard still had my bloodline even though there was nothing on the bloodline saying that bastards would inherit it. What did you do to encounter this bug?

It is possible it has something to do with the pagan reformation - in my game i was pagan reformed to have the sexes enforced as equal (and note others mention enatic). I did not do anything extraordinary, though - i just had consorts, and all of their children lacked my bloodlines (except the one matriarchal one I had just forged).

 

[faiuwle]

Nope, even after reforming, I am still unable to have children without my bloodline.

 

[Eldath]

Ah, didn't know that. Kinda hilarious that there weren't enough men, would probably have been more interesting to just see it play out like that

Hahah, this is funny, because,
>YO, men we don't want you anywhere near power!
>Where have all the good men gone?

 

[Xenrek]

Hahah, this is funny, because,
>YO, men we don't want you anywhere near power!
>Where have all the good men gone?

yet women still stick around in the patriarchal realms

well guess we know which group are the pouting kiddies who leave in a huff when they dont get their way ;P (j/k, of course, mostly, a little bit)

 

[Eldath]

yet women still stick around in the patriarchal realms

well guess we know which group are the pouting kiddies who leave in a huff when they dont get their way ;P (j/k, of course, mostly, a little bit)

This gives me an idea.
Enatic clans should have a new casus belli called "capture men".
I'm serious, this should be a thing. It would turn a 'bug' into a fun feature.

 

[Xenrek]

This gives me an idea.
Enatic clans should have a new casus belli called "capture men".
I'm serious, this should be a thing. It would turn a 'bug' into a fun feature.

eh, ya know, wouldnt hurt. but should only be able to target lowborn or distant relatives of the owning character, to prevent exploits.

but some general "hunt for captives" wars could be nice, as a kind of more targeted form of the general captives you get from sieging. gotta win the whole war since its a specific person you want them to hand over, rather than just random people you pick up along the way

 

[Ciniod]

It could be a form of synergy coming from Enatic Clans + Warmongering/(Dogmatic maybe). I think only being able to target a single person wouldn't be so great though, not that wars haven't been fought over a single person but from a gameplay stance I don't see it being very useful except in rare cases where there is a truly fantastic courtier. There also isn't a convenient demands screen for ck2, so what if a capture men war like this simply imprisoned every man that isn't close-kin to the target ruler? Possibly with a higher chance of taking prisoners in sieges aswell (which I believe is already a feature for flower wars).

Now that I think about it though it is very similar to the humiliate cb that nomads have, so maybe there should be a more general cb for some groups that takes random courtiers from the enemy realm (even from vassals) prisoner when you win. Maybe for non-reformed pagan tribals and warmongering reformed pagans? With this more general cb not being targeted and not taking all courtiers as prisoner.

 

[Xenrek]

It could be a form of synergy coming from Enatic Clans + Warmongering/(Dogmatic maybe). I think only being able to target a single person wouldn't be so great though, not that wars haven't been fought over a single person but from a gameplay stance I don't see it being very useful except in rare cases where there is a truly fantastic courtier. There also isn't a convenient demands screen for ck2, so what if a capture men war like this simply imprisoned every man that isn't close-kin to the target ruler? Possibly with a higher chance of taking prisoners in sieges aswell (which I believe is already a feature for flower wars).

Now that I think about it though it is very similar to the humiliate cb that nomads have, so maybe there should be a more general cb for some groups that takes random courtiers from the enemy realm (even from vassals) prisoner when you win. Maybe for non-reformed pagan tribals and warmongering reformed pagans? With this more general cb not being targeted and not taking all courtiers as prisoner.

was more thinking the regular war would take all lowborn/distant relatives

the targeted thing was more, if you win the war, you could maybe get a non-heir, high-succession order character to consort to yourself to make their lwas shoot themselves in the foot with succession

just figure with how difficult enatic clans makes it, no kids after 45, mandatory last-month regency if pregnancy events are enabled, chance of randomly dying every kid, etc

would be nice to see some perks for the doctrine outside the normal. an additional kidnap-war to try and use other realm's succession laws against them to expand your realm would be nice, as would getting rid of bastards in enatic realms (after all, men do not and *cannot* hold any power, so why would they care about which one is the father? the mother is the important one, and you KNOW who she is, would just open more avenues for getting opportunity kids within that short 30 years of fertility)

 

[sagimine1]

Thats the point: there is NO debutante desc for an enatic ruler. You can get a female holy/noble/commander. You have NO way to generate a random male. I took to converting culture to norse and actively raiding (i was peaceful! LOL!) other religions for men. I was literally abducting any and all men, forcing them into consort to break any existing marraiges then marrying them to my vassals and daughters cos we couldnt generate enough men inside my empire . It was pretty dam crazy tbh.

Enatic needs some major buffs/fixs.

I see your kingdom suffering a man drought here.........

 

[Cagliostro]

Nope, even after reforming, I am still unable to have children without my bloodline.

This seems particularly odd, as you're the only person reporting *not* having this particular bug (if it is a bug, and I think it should be regarded as such), at least in this thread. Wondering how this is occurrring.

 

[faiuwle]

Well, with some savefile editing, I was able to test the mod, and it is now posted on the workshop. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be showing up at all and I can't figure out where the link to it is.

 

[josefrees]

My issue with the whole thing is how they try to smooth over dubious paternity by giving away who the father is through magic. An ambitious woman married to Ragnar, Charlemagne and the Chinese emperor isn’t to be forth coming about who the father is if she even knows.

There should be some events or something that publicize the father

 

[Tuppie]

This is a pretty major bug if you play with enatic clans. One of the main benefits of running enatic clans (or any cognatic succesion really) is the ability to fairly easily create mega-bloodlines but his kind of ruins that aspect. The solution to the problem would be fairly simple: make the consorts be more or less exactly like secondary husbands so that it counts as a matrilinial marriage (or consortship) instead of working like concubines that gives your dynasty.

 

[rjk]

From what I can tell, the rule being applied is this: the only circumstance in which a child can inherit patrilineal bloodlines from their mother is in a matrilineal marriage. No other circumstances - concubinage, bastardy, patrilineal marriage or consortship will work. Matri-marriages are the special case that allow bloodlines to be passed down, and consort relationships do not have the same ability - though I agree with everyone above who says that they should.