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ziomax90

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1vs1 results.jpg


Hello everyone i been playing about 300 match multiplayer and i like this game but the conquest mode must be re worke, i will show you example of my last ranked match 1vs1:

i was playing the 12. ss panzer vs the french division, and i was defending the enemy push until phase C , i was until late phase b with like 46% that is best i could do, and then i started pushing finally with more income i could afford more units for the offensive.. and i went pushing untill when the match finished i had like 70% of the map with the enemy french division almost dead... as you can see the stats in the of the match his casuality are around 4000 death, so at the end i destroy enemy division and i has 70% of the map under my controll... but WHAT DOES THE GAME SAY>?? .. MAJOR DEFEAT ... haha this is ridicolous,
this need to be reworked, give more extra bonus point to the division that at the end as more ground or more extra point for the kills. this system as now favour the division with much higher push on A and B rather than division as mine with only real push on phase C... for me my result on that match is a win since i with patience and strategy hold the flank - destroy enemy army and push untill having most map on me. so please think about it and make some realistic award.
ziomax
 

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Key words "i was defending enemy push." So basically he pushed u back on the map and you failed to stop or even slow his advance. He gains map control and then phase C comes along and you feel you should have an instant win with axis equipment far superior to his. Sorry, he played the French correctly and won. Timers are there for a reason.
 

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1955 points indicates that he had a +1 over halfway into phase C, so you needed to get started faster. You should be able to start pushing the French back in phase B- 12. SS has plenty of tools to do it, and even in phase A you can compete.

Don't ever take "weaker in phase A" to mean "don't try to compete and score in phase A".

The complaint sounds to me like "well, I lost the first three quarters of the game and was down by 30 points starting the fourth quarter but i won the fourth quarter by 12 in garbage time so i deserve the win"
 
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ziomax90

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Key words "i was defending enemy push." So basically he pushed u back on the map and you failed to stop or even slow his advance. He gains map control and then phase C comes along and you feel you should have an instant win with axis equipment far superior to his. Sorry, he played the French correctly and won. Timers are there for a reason.

Dear LegioX , i didnt really failed on stopping his push since i lost very few units and i was keeping around 46% of the ground on me (but having a stupid 4% less for long a pshase can give a lost haha :( ... ) . second i dont ask for istant win with axis , dont put words on me that i never say or think, dont act like child, i just want more realistic score, because if 1: i destroy enemy division and 2: i did 900 score points and i was holding 70% of the map .. this is not a total defeat. this is because the award of the match is wrong.
 

ziomax90

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1955 points indicates that he had a +1 over halfway into phase C, so you needed to get started faster. You should be able to start pushing the French back in phase B- 12. SS has plenty of tools to do it, and even in phase A you can compete.

Don't ever take "weaker in phase A" to mean "don't try to compete and score in phase A".

The complaint sounds to me like "well, I lost the first three quarters of the game and was down by 30 points starting the fourth quarter but i won the fourth quarter by 12 in garbage time so i deserve the win"

well, if the enemy division is made to push hard in phase a and b and that what he did, and i resisted and hold most of my line, that i get ground and destroy entire enemy division. do you call this a realistic result on a total defeat ? its like saying 1+1 is 3 . no its not. if you want make a realisitc result you must rework the conquest game system.
 

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well, if the enemy division is made to push hard in phase a and b and that what he did, and i resisted and hold most of my line, that i get ground and destroy entire enemy division. do you call this a realistic result on a total defeat ? its like saying 1+1 is 3 . no its not. if you want make a realisitc result you must rework the conquest game system.

You focus too much on what the divisions can do and not on your actual gameplay. You focused too much on attriting him down and let him score for more than 75% of the game. Even if he had spent all of A at +1, you can come back from that. You can even come back from him spending all of B at +1, that's 1200 points maximum, but you need to play faster and get moving sooner. Judging by the gameflow, you played far too passively through phase B despite the fact that you have vehicles that can be very difficult for France to deal with starting in that phase.

You were totally defeated because you threw 3/4 of the game. If you have such a high K - D you should be able to translate that into territory. When you're down on score you need to get aggressive.

I mean, it wouldn't have mattered if it was a minor defeat or a major defeat because a loss is a loss and a win is a win.
 

ziomax90

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You focus too much on what the divisions can do and not on your actual gameplay. You focused too much on attriting him down and let him score for more than 75% of the game. Even if he had spent all of A at +1, you can come back from that. You can even come back from him spending all of B at +1, that's 1200 points maximum, but you need to play faster and get moving sooner. Judging by the gameflow, you played far too passively through phase B despite the fact that you have vehicles that can be very difficult for France to deal with starting in that phase.

You were totally defeated because you threw 3/4 of the game. If you have such a high K - D you should be able to translate that into territory. When you're down on score you need to get aggressive.

I mean, it wouldn't have mattered if it was a minor defeat or a major defeat because a loss is a loss and a win is a win.

do you actually ever play conquest with a panzer division in a situation like this? because mate you dont get my point, if enemy is pushing so hard due to is higher income and access to a lot of tanks and units, i cant really push on early stage and i think i still did good to manage to hold, and only on phase c with high income i can really push hard.
 

ziomax90

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the point is this: the example used its the prove that for me and some friends there should be some change on the score system, i have been winning with my panzer division even in phase a but i was playing with a noob and this is not the point. the point is that first something like not having a 4% maps or even a 1% can really chnage the game and i think its unrealistic and most of all, if at the end the enemy has not an army any more and i do have and im holding most of the map.. what is the point of giving me a total defeat??/ which defeat???????/ enemy army is gone and i have still most of everything and im holding 70% of the map and i would get 100% in 5 more minuts.. hehe .
i would just like to get some more realism on score system.
 

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do you actually ever play conquest with a panzer division in a situation like this? because mate you dont get my point, if enemy is pushing so hard due to is higher income and access to a lot of tanks and units, i cant really push on early stage and i think i still did good to manage to hold, and only on phase c with high income i can really push hard.

I sure do. You have to play a lot more cautiously in A and potentially can lose all of it. France's most dangerous phase A thing is the M10, but you do have the beute firefly for wide open maps and autocannons and vet AT guns for closer in work. France has a very limited ability to deal with vet AT guns in A and you should be able to attrit him down and keep him from building up too hard. Passive play in A is to your benefit. He has higher income, but you have powerful cheap units like the 222, vet pak 38s, and truck mounted pgrens.

It's not A that lost you the game though, it's that he was still scoring for more than half of phase C. As 12. SS, you should be able to have both a beute firefly and Wittman to begin pushing in phase B. You may not start scoring right then, but if you work cautiously and don't lose your stuff, you should be able to bowl him over in C, even if he's spent the entirety of phase A and B scoring. If you can spend a decent amount of time at +2, you'll win, even if he's won the first half of the game. If you wait until phase C to start your push, you may be too late.

France is not better than you in B, you're evenly matched. Play better.

Score system isn't about realism, it's about determining a winner or loser in a game. Steel Division is a game.

If i'm playing France and i'm pushing you for more than 75% of the game time while you sit there and mass up your panthers and tigers and don't do anything until you're ready and then you have an unbeatable deathball, why should you be given the win for that? France fought aggressively and played hard and held more of the map than you, that should be rewarded.
 

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Score system isn't about realism, it's about determining a winner or loser in a game. Steel Division is a gam

yes of course is a game but suppose to be a more realistic style game, and it could be much more with a simple changes like at the end giving some bonus point in case the enemy has not at army any more..... or at the end who actually won the battle ( holding most of the ground and winning). this are some ideas but we i want you guys to think and make this game better that all.
My post is not for whining that i have to win at all cost of course not, sometime i play also bad and loose because of some mistake and i know it. my point is simple to make game better , more realistic and more correct, because in a battle of 40 minuts you have hold some little bit of ground more than me but than your army pufff is all dead with no ground you cant have a total victory is just something that doesnt really sounds real?..
 

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yes of course is a game but suppose to be a more realistic style game, and it could be much more with a simple changes like at the end giving some bonus point in case the enemy has not at army any more..... or at the end who actually won the battle ( holding most of the ground and winning). this are some ideas but we i want you guys to think and make this game better that all.
My post is not for whining that i have to win at all cost of course not, sometime i play also bad and loose because of some mistake and i know it. my point is simple to make game better , more realistic and more correct, because in a battle of 40 minuts you have hold some little bit of ground more than me but than your army pufff is all dead with no ground you cant have a total victory is just something that doesnt really sounds real?..

Honestly, if you can't translate that to territory sooner than the end of the game, that's on you, not the game.
 

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Honestly, if you can't translate that to territory sooner than the end of the game, that's on you, not the game.

oh yeah of course on me and on others that think this is not right , do i have to repeat : ranked game 1vs1 , french army hold little more ground than germany (around 4-5%) for 30 minuts and than get smashed out and loose entire army and remain with 30% ground and you call this a major victory? come on guys..
 

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oh yeah of course on me and on others that think this is not right , do i have to repeat : ranked game 1vs1 , french army hold little more ground than germany (around 4-5%) for 30 minuts and than get smashed out and loose entire army and remain with 30% ground and you call this a major victory? come on guys..

Yes cause he held more ground.
Conquest isn't about your kill PTS.
 

ziomax90

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Yes cause he held more ground.
Conquest isn't about your kill PTS.

yes you are right is about conquer ? but enemy at the end didnt hold any more almost nothing with no army. so what we want to do, maybe double the conquest point you get x the percent of the ground you hold. this is an idea.
 

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Increasing time limit by 5 minutes into 45 minutes of total match will increase playability of such an armored divisions which are currently loosing in phase A but able to come back at B or C phase. This will also represent the global nerf to airborne divisions which are currently still OP.
 

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In-game you lost because the objective was to take and hold ground and you failed to do that.

If you want to make up an out-of-game reason for "realism", take your pick. You had some reason you needed to push through that enemy position and you failed to do it. Maybe it was operation Market Garden and you failed to kick the Allies off of a bridge before their armored column rolled through. Maybe you were relieving an encircled friendly division and let yourself get stalled until they got wiped out. Whatever; it's no less realistic than any of the thousand other compromises the game makes to be a functional game.

The rules of the game work fine. Make them more kill-centric and you encourage the Sitzkrieg that has plagued Wargame because casualties pretty much invariably favor the defender unless both sides are camping and you get the ever-enjoyable game-length artillery duel. Make control worth more later in the game or final game control a huge factor into the score, and you're encouraging armor decks to sit around and build up overwhelming armor superiority and then win in the last five minutes of the game, which is equally boring.

The only thing the game arguably did wrong there was not detect you were hopelessly behind on points earlier and end in your defeat then and there instead of continuing on when you had no chance of coming back.
 
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Conquest is stupid but complaining about it tend to get you yelled at.
The best thing you can do is not bother with the forum and not bother with conquest.
Once Eugen realized the game is losing player because people hate conquest and asymmetric balance doesn't work in Dest, they might do something.