Conquering a large nation

[unmerged(177849)]

So ... straight up conquest of a large nation can be a challenge because of game mechanics, e.g., over extension & AE. The following is a list of possible tactics; the point of this thread is to see if I've missed anything:

(1) Force them to return cores to you or (more likely) your vassals.
(2) Force them to release nations & then vassalize & annex them yourself (problem: must be same religion as new nation).
(3) Same as 2, but attack and vassalize the new nation.
(4) Take provinces and sell them to your vassals.
(5) Take provinces belonging to a nation not in existence, release that nation, eventually annex (hopefully after forcing the large opposing nation to return some cores to it).
(6) Force personal union.

Aside from those, there is the horribly inefficient (in terms of over extension and AE) tactic of simply biting off 2 to 4 provinces per war, every 5 years.

What have I missed?

 

[dstarsboy]

That's pretty much it. With disappearing cores issue it takes an extraordinary long time to dismantle a large country right now.

You really have to be ambitious about this up front. Even if they're an ally, if they're getting too big you have to pounce and keep them a manageable size. This means keeping on eye on potential personal unions and freeing up large conquests as soon as they happen before the cores drop.

As for your actual question, I think you've covered all of the potential ways to take provinces from a large one.... except you can try to support rebels and have them lose provinces that way but rarely work on large countries.

 

[zodium]

7) Play Austria and diplovassalize everyone.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Thanks. Denmark in my current game is going to be a real PITA.

I've heard about the dropping core issue but am not sure what it means. Can you elaborate? (I've seen one odd thing which may or may not be an example - I annexed the capital province of Afghanistan from some other nation - Afghanistan was not in existence - and released Afghanistan, hoping to add the surrounding cores in subsequent wars. But when I went back less than 5 years later (one of the cores was held by a different nation where the truce expired sooner) all the cores were gone! Fortunately the same thing did NOT happen with Persia, a great nation to use that tactic on. )

 

[zodium]

It's complicated and I'm sure TheBloke will show up with the full review, but basically, if a province hasn't swapped hands since the start of the game, cores of non-existent countries will decay in half the time listed once that nation is released. If the Ottomans inherit Crimea, for instance, their cores will say they expire in 1944. If I take a Crimean province and release them as a vassal in 1645, however, then all of the cores they had at the start of the game will decay in 1644, which is in the past. All the provinces they conquered after game start, on the other hand, will have the correct core decay time.

 

[unmerged(184583)]

well that explains why Xi lost all their cores when i conquered and released 1 province from Ming. I actually did 3, and released Zhou and Shun as well, but their cores didn't disappear. It was rather unfortunate really, kinda made conquering china a real chore, not to mention Ming kept repetitively being overran by Zhou and Shun rebels, they controlled many provinces, then the province would defect to... Ming Not sure if that is wad or what, but not really what I expected.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Well that explains Afghanistan.

So if I understand you correctly ... in my current game it is 1635. So basically any as yet un-created minor nation that hasn't swapped hands whose core is listed as expiring before 1826, if I'm doing my math right, is going to disappear as soon as the nation is created?

Though I think your math is wrong on 1944. They shouldn't expire till 1694. So time to start a series of wars against Denmark, form Sweden, whose cores expire in 1944, and slowly grow it until I eventually annex it when it has all of its cores. And since Denmark (which includes all of Norway and Sweden at this point) was the impetus for this thread (as Russia I've mostly left them alone so far, except 2 wars to make them disgorge their ill gotten gains in the Baltics), I'm happy. Though it will make conquest in Asia a little more difficult, as there are several potential nations I could have created whose cores will disappear if I do so.

 

[zodium]

Well that explains Afghanistan.

So if I understand you correctly ... in my current game it is 1635. So basically any as yet un-created minor nation that hasn't swapped hands whose core is listed as expiring before 1826, if I'm doing my math right, is going to disappear as soon as the nation is created?

Though I think your math is wrong on 1944. They shouldn't expire till 1694. So time to start a series of wars against Denmark, form Sweden, whose cores expire in 1944, and slowly grow it until I eventually annex it when it has all of its cores. And since Denmark (which includes all of Norway and Sweden at this point) was the impetus for this thread (as Russia I've mostly left them alone so far, except 2 wars to make them disgorge their ill gotten gains in the Baltics), I'm happy. Though it will make conquest in Asia a little more difficult, as there are several potential nations I could have created whose cores will disappear if I do so.

Like I said, TheBloke has the full review with math and whatnot somewhere, but that's the gist of it.