How long does bombing a world take in 2.2? I remember in 2.1 it took years.
Conquer a few planets, economy crashes-- 2.2 in a nutshell
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I take it you're at your fleet maintenance cap? Or do you figure that it just doesn't matter since you can build more ships whenever you need them?
*shrugs* I'm saying that your complaints, as written, are nonsense. Migrating pops after conquest can't crash your economy without incompetent play. They don't crash mine, so why do they crash yours?
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Vassalize & integrate actually seems a much safer/more stable way of expanding in 2.2
It gives you time to separate the 'drain of war', from the 'drain of annexation', and also works out to be way WAY cheaper on influence.
It gives you time to separate the 'drain of war', from the 'drain of annexation', and also works out to be way WAY cheaper on influence.
First, I didn't realize migration was apart of the problem until it was too late, so that's on me. But the main issue is that i had very little control over my pops. If I could have just moved them to were I needed them I could have fix the problem quickly.
Recent multi-player session:
> I went into a huge war with AI
> I ensured that I am going to win it quickly
> it still took some time
> this way I obtained the race with Tomb World preference and around 5 random planets they occupied
> retained full citizenship for them and enable migration controls so that they don't leak to any other worlds in mass numbers
> economy crippled for next 10 years
> 10 years later the strongest economy among other players due to the enormous number of pops and my actual efforts
It takes time to stabilize after huge conquests and some small factors like "60% habitability" can feel disastrous if it means x1,4 amenities and consumer goods cost. Once, because of a lack of attention, I dropped to 0 consumer goods. Nevertheless, I can finally successfully utilize wide strategy (which was never touched by me before 2.2 because of +20% research cost modifier per planet). Yes, I prefer to go wide in 2.2, keeping control over my pops with authoritarian ethics and getting resources from the syncretic slaves.
I still have to say that Fanatic Egalitarian + Militarist feels like the best alloys rush in the early midgame for me (would be great to know people's opinions on that).
Finally, my actual advice: it is great to have a plan, but be flexible about your needs. If you have a huge stockpile of minerals then you can suddenly switch production to consumer goods on all your planets within a couple of months. This flexibility is a great strength of wide empires with plenty of raw resources.
> I went into a huge war with AI
> I ensured that I am going to win it quickly
> it still took some time
> this way I obtained the race with Tomb World preference and around 5 random planets they occupied
> retained full citizenship for them and enable migration controls so that they don't leak to any other worlds in mass numbers
> economy crippled for next 10 years
> 10 years later the strongest economy among other players due to the enormous number of pops and my actual efforts
It takes time to stabilize after huge conquests and some small factors like "60% habitability" can feel disastrous if it means x1,4 amenities and consumer goods cost. Once, because of a lack of attention, I dropped to 0 consumer goods. Nevertheless, I can finally successfully utilize wide strategy (which was never touched by me before 2.2 because of +20% research cost modifier per planet). Yes, I prefer to go wide in 2.2, keeping control over my pops with authoritarian ethics and getting resources from the syncretic slaves.
I still have to say that Fanatic Egalitarian + Militarist feels like the best alloys rush in the early midgame for me (would be great to know people's opinions on that).
Finally, my actual advice: it is great to have a plan, but be flexible about your needs. If you have a huge stockpile of minerals then you can suddenly switch production to consumer goods on all your planets within a couple of months. This flexibility is a great strength of wide empires with plenty of raw resources.
The fact that you feel the need to micro pops like this indicates that you're not managing the macro game well enough. In Le Guin, asking for more ability to micro pops is much like asking for more ability to micro ships in battle. You're supposed to plan everything else such that you don't need to micro, just like fleet battles.
People don't argue things like "Well, if I could just micro my ships, my 8k fleet could kill that 12k fleet." You need to build a 12k or larger fleet to win, unless they have some major design weakness. The economy is now the same. You need to plan and build large enough that you can succeed. Before 2.2, you could do whatever without any thought and make up the difference with pop micro. This just turned the economy into a meaningless micro game, since there was no need for proper planning. Now there is a need for it, and failing to play well in your economics can lose you the game.
This means preparing to absorb conquered planets, preparing for an influx of refugees if you allow them, and so on are just like planning for the Khan or crisis. If you do it well, you win. If you don't, you lose.
The new economic model simply does not go in the red across the board without either massive and widespread unemployment, or extreme planetary management blunders (eg upgraded buildings and tons of special resource producers, or not building farms/mines/gens and spamming cities for clerk jobs). If it looks like you aren't producing something it's because you're producing what isn't where you are looking. Science and unity are examples of things that you manufacture at the cost of upkeep and consumer goods but you cannot sell/trade obviously so an economy focusing these can appear to be weak.
So if your economy is crashing and you are NOT staring at huge unemployment lines, there is going to be a solution:
1. Stop being a socialist. Don't get me wrong, these things are great in the right situation, but if you start up a game and immediately click on nutritional plenitude and social welfare or academic privilege etc... you are demolishing your net economic output.
2. Stop building unity and research buildings. You do NOT need a monument or temple everywhere. Labs come after your bases are covered. These jobs are eating up the consumer goods of both a specialist and their upkeep and returning zero marketable output.
3. Only build cities if you need them, and consider changing how you build in general if you find you keep needing a lot of them. Your other districts should be the basis of your economy.
4. Avoid upgrading buildings to ones that use special resources unless you are certain you need it. Exception is the 25% raw resource generators - those are totally cool.
5. Once your economy is awesome and you know what you are doing by ALL means ignore the above!
At the end of the day you just need to realize that the economy is just 3 tiers: basic resources (minerals, energy, and food) and advanced resources (alloys, consumer goods, specials), and then finished / non-resource outputs (ships, buildings, unity, more pops, amenities, research, etc). Trying to build a big naval fleet and also keep pace in research and also unlock aps and also grow your population and/or robot count... well no kidding your economy cannot support it!
So if your economy is crashing and you are NOT staring at huge unemployment lines, there is going to be a solution:
1. Stop being a socialist. Don't get me wrong, these things are great in the right situation, but if you start up a game and immediately click on nutritional plenitude and social welfare or academic privilege etc... you are demolishing your net economic output.
2. Stop building unity and research buildings. You do NOT need a monument or temple everywhere. Labs come after your bases are covered. These jobs are eating up the consumer goods of both a specialist and their upkeep and returning zero marketable output.
3. Only build cities if you need them, and consider changing how you build in general if you find you keep needing a lot of them. Your other districts should be the basis of your economy.
4. Avoid upgrading buildings to ones that use special resources unless you are certain you need it. Exception is the 25% raw resource generators - those are totally cool.
5. Once your economy is awesome and you know what you are doing by ALL means ignore the above!
At the end of the day you just need to realize that the economy is just 3 tiers: basic resources (minerals, energy, and food) and advanced resources (alloys, consumer goods, specials), and then finished / non-resource outputs (ships, buildings, unity, more pops, amenities, research, etc). Trying to build a big naval fleet and also keep pace in research and also unlock aps and also grow your population and/or robot count... well no kidding your economy cannot support it!
What you did was what historians call 'Winning the war, and loosing the peace"
You can do 1 of 3 things. You can go back to a version you like more. You can go on loosing, or you can learn. Pick one, but dontact like the game is bad for creating the choice.
You can do 1 of 3 things. You can go back to a version you like more. You can go on loosing, or you can learn. Pick one, but dontact like the game is bad for creating the choice.
That's great in theory, but poor in practice. Micro of pops and micro of ships are not the same thing, so your analogy fails. You can build a fleet to counter your enemy easy enough, but building a world where the pops work the tiles you need, not so much. And don't give me that "You just have to build when you have unemployment/ turn off building," First off, that doesn't work because the pops still just do what they want. Second, how is that in any way better then just letting us micro as needed. Much like the sectors from 2.1. They were largely automated but you could manually control them if you wanted. Now that we have a new economy that's suddenly a bad thing?
That is an ultimatum not a choice.
go to the planet - click resettle. and no your pops is where you want him to be.
if you want to select jobs - disable all unneeded jobs and they'll fill the slots. you just have to think a bit when building and not to build much ahead
This could be one of those areas where the AI resource bonus comes back to bite the player again, because of the increased production AI planets at higher difficulty levels tend to be more specialist heavy then a player would build, and if you conquer it your stuck with a bunch of bad options unless your authoritarian or xenophobic. You either you have grumpy, unproductive specialists and a planet that drains raw resources (and probably consumer goods as well, or you have very grumpy, unemployed specialists, and the only way out is via relocation (spread the grumpy around your empire so it does not effect stability too much, but its energy intensive), or enslavement.
My tall-ish game wasn't too much of a problem. My ultra-wide game as the local Space Jerk (Fan. Xenophobic Spiritualistic Fanatical Purifier "Dark Elves"), I have to take frequent breaks to not go insane. There's so many uncolonized worlds within my borders that I haven't bothered with for the sole reason that I'm tired enough managing >75 planets and >30 separate systems (especially annoying for 1-planet sectors), forever increasing due to my constant Crusading across the other half of the galaxy. Whereas I used to be able to put 2 or 3 sectors for AI to manage all those planets and called it good, I have to either manage every single planet myself or at least manage the auto-generated sectors.
I'm not sure I trust the AI to do the resource managing thing in this much more complex economy. I'll probably do it anyways just to take the load off but that still means I have to go into my Sector list, fill the 30+ sectors with minerals (and strategic resources IIRC?), check them periodically for more sectors that I have from more planets that I acquired through Crusading and fill those up with minerals and such, and also check to see if my other sectors have run low on resources and replenish them if so, and even that micro-reducing measure looks like a major headache. If only the sectors could keep a portion of their production, or even if I could just decide to give a monthly stipend to the governors for development instead of lump sums I have to check on every now and then. But alas.
Similarly with some of the planetary decisions, specifically the Pop Growth, which needs a lump sum of Food and then expires without so much as a wimper every 10 years. Unless I wish my stockpiled food to spoil I need to go to each planet myself, check if it's still active, open the decisions tab if it isn't, possibly do some scrolling, and activate it manually. I can't lean on my Sector AI to do this either, manual is mandatory. This one (and "Distribute Consumer Goods") should really be persistent decisions with monthly food/CG drain, not 10-year edicts with big up-front costs. In fact there's not very many planetary decisions overall, so why do two-to-three of them fill up the Decisions sidebar? You could probably downsize their icons a ton and get rid of that scrollbar...
And to think I started this playthrough because I was annoyed at my multi-species tall empire growing equal sized populations of every single species on every single planet, including ones they weren't well acclimated to, driving consumer goods and food consumption way higher than it probably should have been.
This patch did a lot of good things, including making planetary management more interesting, but I certainly would never, ever describe it as less micro-intensive.
but... why? build more\less alloy foundries. i'm pretty sure there are wasted\needed buildings on your planets.
in the worst case you can build another fleet (building over the cap is ok) or give them to AI for diplomacy boost.
species -> edit rights -> population control\migration control\slavery\purge\living condition\military service
I, for example, play with slavery in intentionally suboptimal way (every xenos is slave except genemoded by me) so I always turn off their ability to move and procreate. also I don't want my soldiers to be weak or just normal.
Maybe you shouldn't just randomly expand. It would be nice if you could use espionage to determine which planets are worth conquering.
1 miner in early game: ~6 minerals.
1 metallurgist in early game: -6 minerals for ~3.2 alloys. These alloys can almost always be traded to the AI at a 5:1 ratio for a total of 16 minerals, a profit of 11 minerals per miner.
It gets even better over time. By the mid/late game you might have miners producing 10 or 11 minerals, but your alloy makers are producing ~6 alloys to be traded for 30 minerals, profit of 24. This is even more true if you get a lopsided market, which in my experience happens fairly consistently with the AI. 1 alloy regularly trades for 10-15 energy, which is kind of insane. If/when the market gets sufficiently depressed you can start trading alloy for energy with the AI at the same 5:1 ratio.
In my current game Fen Habbanis in 2335 produces almost 1.4k alloys. I trade around 400 alloys a month to around 15 AI empires for the base resources needed to power an ecumenopolis producing 1.4k alloys a month, along with most of the rest of my empire and my huge fleets needed to stomp awakened empires.
Also, you can sell exotic resources to the AI at 30:1. Doing this a single worker producing ~3.5 gas gets you over 100 minerals. Completely nuts. I don't do it since it seems like an exploit.
You can of course, do everything by concentrating on one special resource (like alloys) and then go constantly to the market and sell it for the other resources you need. But i actually like to avoid this. i rather have only 500 alloys every month and some constant good plus in the other areas, than a big minus in one field, which i constantly have to restock from the market.
And when we are at the market, i agree to one of the other guys, complaining about, that the market system has a big flaw: you just sell on some high price, the price drops. you buy at the lower price, the price raises up again. you sell at the higher price again.... if you need to, you have unlimited resources this way. Its too easy to exploid.
This isn't the market, this is direct trading of monthly income (30 year deal) with the AI. I agree that screwing with the market to generate free resources is an exploit, but this is fair trading with the AI at the rate Paradox decided Alloys should be valued at.
Its trading with the AI, not using the market, i do the same with consumer goods, i trade with 80% of the galaxy, in 2.2+ trade between empires is severally underestimated.
I take a lot of time making trade deals with the other ai empires exporting consumer goods for alloys/minerals/energy, each empire will make a different deal according with their production/needs.
the ferengi rules of acquisition do make sense now.