Connecting the Great Lakes to the Atlantic Ocean in HOI4

[redflag]

I think it would be nice to connect the great lakes to the Atlantic ocean via canal (even if it means capital warships could travel through them). This would allow cities like Chicago and Detroit to be able to ship infantry divisions to Europe via transports. Warships were built in the great lakes during WW2 for example the Manitowoc Shipbuilding company built almost 30 submarines during ww2 that went to serve in both the pacific and atlantic

 

[Secret Master]

It also means that Japan or Germany could sail a CTF up the Great Lakes and land 20 panzer divisions in Chicago.

I don't really think that's a good idea.

 

[Kagernaut]

It also means that Japan or Germany could sail a CTF up the Great Lakes and land 20 panzer divisions in Chicago.

I don't really think that's a good idea.

Ah, well, if you failed in the war badly enough that the Axis can just sail ships right into the heart of your territory unopposed, I think you made a few mistakes and deserve that fate.

But, to be constructive, this could be easily fixed by simply just setting a province or a string of provinces that block/allow passage. For example, Ismaila for Suez. The canal could be split into portions, and a controller province could be set for each portion.

But, is this a key thing to be included? Honestly, I don't think its a necessary feature. I also don't see it as being that much of an advantage. I mean, the Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company could still be abstracted as building subs or other ships---you just don't deploy them in the Great Lakes.

 

[SFSLovenought]

It also means that Japan or Germany could sail a CTF up the Great Lakes and land 20 panzer divisions in Chicago.

I don't really think that's a good idea.

No no, it wouldn't be a CTF. That's far too unrealistic.
Obviously it would be a fleet of Submersible Landing Craft unloading a SS Panzerdivision equipped with the new Mech-suit Wunderwaffe.

 

[redflag]

Well if there is the Kiel Canal in HOI3 that allows Germany to go from the Baltic to the North Sea while at the same time not allowing the Allies to pass through the Kiel canal I see no reason why the same cannot occur for the United States and Canada for the Great Lakes. The main reason why I think having the great lakes accessible to ships is that it fleshes out Chicago (which after is the second largest city in the USA). Having the Great Lakes accessible to ships (minus capital ships if possible) would allow for a better defense of the USA/Canada if it was invaded since you could have an amphibious assault in the rear of a Axis East coast invasion. By the way during WW2 there were 2 training aircraft carriers in the great lakes ( the USS Wolverine and USS Sable)

 

[FOARP]

I think it would be nice to connect the great lakes to the Atlantic ocean via canal (even if it means capital warships could travel through them). This would allow cities like Chicago and Detroit to be able to ship infantry divisions to Europe via transports. Warships were built in the great lakes during WW2 for example the Manitowoc Shipbuilding company built almost 30 submarines during ww2 that went to serve in both the pacific and atlantic

This would be a definite "nice to have" - basically the St. Lawrence could be modelled as a long channel that is only navigable if you control the entire length of it. This would be especially useful for making CSA v. USA mods, or other mods involving widespread conflict in North America.

 

[redflag]

After the Saint Lawrence Seaway was constructed (after ww2 ended) warships were able to go from the great lakes to the Atlantic (and vica versa)

 

[EasyGreen]

Submarines built at the Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company during World War II came down the Mississippi River to New Orleans, not through the St Lawrence Seaway.

 

[redflag]

Ok if you want warships in HOI4 to travel from the great lakes to ohio I have no problem with that

 

[Bhaal]

From what I have read they were supposed to build destroyers originally but they switched to subs because of the size of the estuaries they had to traverse. I would not have an issue with smaller ships (subs, destroyers, landing craft barges..etc) being able to cruise rivers, but capital ships would not fit through the river lock system. Not in the US anyway.

 

[Abadon777]

From what I have read they were supposed to build destroyers originally but they switched to subs because of the size of the estuaries they had to traverse. I would not have an issue with smaller ships (subs, destroyers, landing craft barges..etc) being able to cruise rivers, but capital ships would not fit through the river lock system. Not in the US anyway.

Then it would also make good sense if there were two different types of water zones. Coastal sea zones where only small warships such as transports, DD or light Cruisers can travel thru. The use of coastal waters can redefine the use of coastal forts being able to attack ships passing thru, These zones can also restrict the use of naval bases within coastal zones to only be able to base and repair coastal ships. Minefields can be introduced and only be placed in coastal zones doing away with sea zone blocks used in HOI3.
Deep water zones should be usable by both coastal ships and Capital ship types. Naval bases in deep waters could be used by both Coastal ships and Deep water capital ships. Coastal ships traveling thru deep water zones during a storm would have a slightly higher chance of damage then Capital ships. Plus modders would ust love having two different sea zone types.

 

[Bhaal]

Then it would also make good sense if there were two different types of water zones. Coastal sea zones where only small warships such as transports, DD or light Cruisers can travel thru. The use of coastal waters can redefine the use of coastal forts being able to attack ships passing thru, These zones can also restrict the use of naval bases within coastal zones to only be able to base and repair coastal ships. Minefields can be introduced and only be placed in coastal zones doing away with sea zone blocks used in HOI3.
Deep water zones should be usable by both coastal ships and Capital ship types. Naval bases in deep waters could be used by both Coastal ships and Deep water capital ships. Coastal ships traveling thru deep water zones during a storm would have a slightly higher chance of damage then Capital ships. Plus modders would ust love having two different sea zone types.

100% agree. This would be a great system.

 

[Lightning Jack]

It also means that Japan or Germany could sail a CTF up the Great Lakes and land 20 panzer divisions in Chicago.

I don't really think that's a good idea.

Depends on which side you are playing as.

 

[redflag]

Another option in game is for the Mississippi river to be one giant canal connecting Chicago to the gulf of Mexico. Ships could travel from the great lakes to the gulf of Mexico
http://www.copperas.com/ss245/cobia.htm

 

[Bhaal]

Another option in game is for the Mississippi river to be one giant canal connecting Chicago to the gulf of Mexico. Ships could travel from the great lakes to the gulf of Mexico
http://www.copperas.com/ss245/cobia.htm

As I said, the estuaries were not large enough for true capital ships. Only subs, destroyers, trawlers and the like could fit or be towed through the lock system in the 40's.

 

[Cpack]

Then it would also make good sense if there were two different types of water zones. Coastal sea zones where only small warships such as transports, DD or light Cruisers can travel thru. The use of coastal waters can redefine the use of coastal forts being able to attack ships passing thru, These zones can also restrict the use of naval bases within coastal zones to only be able to base and repair coastal ships. Minefields can be introduced and only be placed in coastal zones doing away with sea zone blocks used in HOI3.
Deep water zones should be usable by both coastal ships and Capital ship types. Naval bases in deep waters could be used by both Coastal ships and Deep water capital ships. Coastal ships traveling thru deep water zones during a storm would have a slightly higher chance of damage then Capital ships. Plus modders would ust love having two different sea zone types.

hehe....especially for modding sea mines or sea mine fields

 

[Sovetskysoyuz]

As mentioned above, the St. Lawrence Seaway didn't open until 1959. During WWII, the locks on the Lachine Canal at Montreal and the Cornwall Canal at the Long Sault rapids limited traffic to 82 m length, 4.3 m draft, and 13.5 m width.

I can't find any destroyers that would fit in these locks; the shortest British destroyers of WWII were at least 95 m in length. Some submarines would fit: the British S-class were 60 to 66 m long, while the US Gato-class were 95 m long. Convoy escorts and some landing craft would also fit, but oceangoing freighters would not.

The Mississippi is also probably out for destroyers and up due to its shallow draft.

 

[redflag]

The 30 submarines that were built were modern ocean going submarines that fought in both the Pacific and Atlantic. For game purposes I think opening up the great lakes by canal will on balance be a net positive (even if it means that large capital ships can travel into the great lakes which was not possible till after the war). Having Chicago as a shipyard/port on the great lakes with access to the Atlantic will elevate its importance in a way that is not reflected in HOI3.

 

[Kagernaut]

Unless shipbuilding facilities are based in cities, and not based off of IC like it is in HOI3, I don't see how this could be helpful.

Ships should NOT be able to travel up the Missisippi. And Subs would be the ONLY thing that could. Destroyers and the like would say, run right through the various bridges that cross the river, not to mention they just wouldn't fit plan and simple. Its just not deep enough in many parts of the river (I can speak with experience, since I live on said river).

I don't understand why you are so interested in this....it really doesn't seem like it adds anything to the game. No offense intended.

 

[sunsterson]

No.