confucian rebels

[bex I]

hello folks

i played mp, had an giant empire. than i "accidently" annexed 5 ming provinces, which gave me 250oe. stupid bex.

the situation that followed was terrible:

300k confucian rebels spawned after some months (1-3, i dont remember) in the provinces i conquered, which were uncored, which means it was completly impossible to ever core them again. ofc also the scots stand up with 300k units and the indians with 500k nationalist. oh god! not a problem, ill just accept the uncored rebel demans....

WAIT

they are religious rebels. they only accept conversion, and thats impossible. so its impossible to ever get rid of the oe again! jeez, the superpower number 1 on the planet got owned by 3 stack of confucian rebels and had to release every releaseable nation, and still sits on 250% oe and waits to get small enough so the rebels can enforce their demands??

hotfix this pls, its ruining the game. not only the religious rebels want to convert the whole state religion, also the retarded masses of rebels spawning EVERYWHERE instead of the new conquered provinces are complete - history as well as gameplay wise. change religious rebels so they just give a modifier like -5 or -10 missionary chance for 50 years or somewhat. also delete the scaling with oe, its harsh enough to get 35k stacks of rebels in 1 basetax provinces everywhere, no, it must be 100k so its impossible to fight them once they spawned.

edit:

of course i tryed to sell(no control, bitch), release(no cores but ming) the uncored. also i considered to trucebreak ming, 100% him and force him to take his shit back but thats sadly impossible because you cannot give cores back that are not under your control.

Foul language removed - Seelmeister

 

[Straigthtsilver]

How horribly over-extended were you that annexing just five Ming provinces got you to 250%? I have a feeling you were already well into the redzone of OE if such a relatively minor capture of territory ruined you.

If anything, this is WAD. In my most recent Arabia game, I got to only 120 OE after going on an ill-advised conquering spree across India and Indonesia, and even then I was feeling the burn quite badly. If you want to massively expand without coring and integrating your newfound provinces into the empire, then don't be surprised when your empire starts crumbling from rebellion.

 

[bex I]

hi straightsilver

pls dont write such nonsense. with the expansion cb you can easily take 500% oe in one 100% war with ming. 1bt = 4ot, and now my friend, do the maths. you think you cant take 55BT from ming with claims and overseas cb?

and its not about the rebels, its about that its impossible to get rid of the oe until your a opm cause they wont enforce their demands nor you can accept them. thats not wad, and if its wad, then the guy who decided its wad is a not sensible.

independed from this clear bug and failed mechanic: its bullshit that the conquest of hard controlable provinces in east asia makes the scots who live peacefully integrated since 150 years stand up with more people than there ever lived in this time. i know THIS is wad, but still its bullshit. stabhits, -tradeincome, i dont know what is fine. but why the hell should some scottish guy start to rebel because the chinese are not content with their new ruler? makes no sense historical, and is also bad game design. they should stand up if you lose the war to gain those provinces, not if you win it.

also why do religious rebels wnat to change the state religion? reason for this? or any logic in it? i say no. never heard of a revolt that wanted to change a state religion, because it makes absolutly no sense. solution: as i said a modifier that makes the provinces of this religion unconvertable for a long time, with a big autonomy hit or flip to a nation with the right statereligion. if the religious rebels are of your own culture they could still demand changing state religion to keep reformation like it is, but also in this case actually its nonsense they demand this. in the current state its utter nonsense, please change this. also you could deny some fish exploits like unOrthodox ottos etc.

Foul language removed - Seelmeister

 

[Straigthtsilver]

hi straightsilver

pls dont write such nonsense. with the expansion cb you can easily take 500% oe in one 100% war with ming. 1bt = 4ot, and now my friend, do the maths. you think you cant take 55BT from ming with claims and overseas cb?

and its not about the rebels, its about that its impossible to get rid of the oe until your a opm cause they wont enforce their demands nor you can accept them. thats not wad, and if its wad, then the guy who decided its wad is not sensible.

independed from this clear bug and failed mechanic: its bullshit that the conquest of hard controlable provinces in east asia makes the scots who live peacefully integrated since 150 years stand up with more people than there ever lived in this time. i know THIS is wad, but still its bullshit. stabhits, -tradeincome, i dont know what is fine. but why the hell should some scottish guy start to rebel because the chinese are not content with their new ruler? makes no sense historical, and is also bad game design. they should stand up if you lose the war to gain those provinces, not if you win it.

Foul language removed - Seelmeister

First of all, watch your language. You're not impressing anyone by going on foul-mouthed tirade.

And I'm fully aware you can seize a huge amount of BT using one of the expansion or imperialims CBs, but that doesn't mean you should. You can do plenty of things in EUIV within game mechanics that will bugger you horribly one way or another.

I agree that the nationalism in random provinces is stretching it a bit, but there has to be some kind of stopper in place to block absolutely absurd expansion. I think blobs in this game are already too stable as it is (I'm looking at you, Timurids) without nerfing OE.

 

[TingJonKi]

I think bex just wants "Accept demands" to allow him to give back the provinces he took instead of being unable to get rid of them which is perfectly reasonable

 

[Zander]

It does seem reasonable that "accept demands" on religious rebels who can't convert you should instead give all provinces of that religion away.

 

[bex I]

@ straightsilver

sorry dude, i didnt want to sound rude. english is obviously not my mother tongue.

edit:
to make it clear: i had some oe(about 40%), but some ming provinces with tradecenters have very high oe. as i said i made a mistake when i took the provinces, but it sucks not to be able to fix this mistake be giving the new (and perhaps some more) stuff, but kicks you out of the game.

@others

you got it. in this situation, the great british empire has no way reduce its overextension but to wait until it has same protestant basetax as confucian provinces of the empire (about 5% of overall basetaxe before this happens.), AFTER this convert to confucianism, THEN sell the provinces to ming. and jeez, hope there wont be peaseants

this cant be wad, because it is a deadlock which punishes you with "quit" or "lose everything you gained in 200 years and more" for an action that isnt that evil it must be punished with this ultimo ratio, IMO. there must always be a possibilty to get out of this oe


at all it doesnt make sense oe punishes you in your "old" provinces. i think the global oe modifiers (-morale, -trade, -disci, +coring cost, -prestige etc.) should be very high to stop expansion, it can be really harsh ok. but to use the rebel system for this always lead to nonsense like scottish nationalist.

and also i think it shouldnt be oe that make expansion hard but the size of the empire itself. the marginal benefit should be 0 at some point ( kinda quickly, perhaps 100 or 150 bt growing with admintech) and after this new provinces except cn and trade companies (should have their own modificator which increases with diplotech) or vasalls are economically and also in a militaristic point only useful for strategic acievments or to cut down your rivals. way more realistic than this oe system, would also make tall empires stronger, and the game more interesting lategame.

 

[Pilot00]

First of all, watch your language. You're not impressing anyone by going on foul-mouthed tirade.

And I'm fully aware you can seize a huge amount of BT using one of the expansion or imperialims CBs, but that doesn't mean you should. You can do plenty of things in EUIV within game mechanics that will bugger you horribly one way or another.

I agree that the nationalism in random provinces is stretching it a bit, but there has to be some kind of stopper in place to block absolutely absurd expansion. I think blobs in this game are already too stable as it is (I'm looking at you, Timurids) without nerfing OE.

The whole point he is making is that he isn't given an option of progressing his game further due to bad design. Which is correct. You on the other hand just say that blobbing and over extension should be stopped. Which is irrelevant and out of topic. You can get out of control, the game allows that, now let the man deal with it, thats the point. Weather he crush and burns or pulls it off is irrelevant, just sitting there with no options is the actual problem.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

First of all, watch your language. You're not impressing anyone by going on foul-mouthed tirade.

While it's never good to spout expletives, you have no room to point fingers here given the nature of your first post. Things like

How horribly over-extended were you that annexing just five Ming provinces got you to 250%? I have a feeling you were already well into the redzone of OE if such a relatively minor capture of territory ruined you.

Not only question a player's skills, but simultaneously indicate a lack of knowledge about the game. 1 base tax is 4 OE before admin efficiency. What do you think happens when you take a 12 tax province, a 10 tax province, and a couple of smaller ones? "How horribly over-extended were you"? Well, if you knew enough about the game, the answer is probably "had no OE previously whatsoever, or well under 100%". OP claimed it was an "accident", whatever that means, but all the same when you in the same sentence question someone's skills and demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the game, an antagonized reaction is to be expected.

This continues:

If anything, this is WAD. In my most recent Arabia game, I got to only 120 OE after going on an ill-advised conquering spree across India and Indonesia, and even then I was feeling the burn quite badly. If you want to massively expand without coring and integrating your newfound provinces into the empire, then don't be surprised when your empire starts crumbling from rebellion.

If you know what you are doing and are prepared for it, it is possible to take 200% OE and core it all, and give even more to vassals on top of that, and survive with manageable rebellion or none.

Worse still, your response ignores the OPs primary complaint, that he has no way of losing the provinces he took, but rather is forced to lose provinces that are across the world from them. This stems from the issue of religious rebels having demands you can't accept unless you can become that religion, and being unable to sell or lose the provinces sieged by religious rebels, even back to the nation you just took them from.

So yes, ignoring someone's primary complaint, questioning of someone's skills, and demonstrating a lack of knowledge in doing so you're not inviting a favorable response.

In fact, you have yet to address that primary complaint despite multiple posts in the thread lol. I feel for him because I come down on people who respond to topics by discussing irrelevant too, and many people don't seem to grasp why that is.

 

[Pilot00]

A lot of people in this forum have the habit of spewing vitriol or 'advice' while they lack basic reading and cognitive skills I am afraid.

 

[Mikalos]

The whole point he is making is that he isn't given an option of progressing his game further due to bad design. Which is correct. You on the other hand just say that blobbing and over extension should be stopped. Which is irrelevant and out of topic. You can get out of control, the game allows that, now let the man deal with it, thats the point. Weather he crush and burns or pulls it off is irrelevant, just sitting there with no options is the actual problem.

caring about what he said becomes moot when he starts insulting random people

 

[TheMeInTeam]

caring about what he said becomes moot when he starts insulting random people

Correction: when he retaliates on thinly veiled, nigh off-topic insults from random people.

 

[Pilot00]

caring about what he said becomes moot when he starts insulting random people

As I said people need comprehension guidance in this forum, either that or stop trying to show off (badly) their awesome intellectual capacities. Read the post before mine and then read the whole thread again.

Also posting random blather because the OP insulted someone, doesnt constitute an opinion. You either remain out of it, and continue to post relevant things to the topic at hand, join in the flame war (ill advice), or if its not to your like ignore the thread. Simple eh?

 

[Zander]

Not only question a player's skills, but simultaneously indicate a lack of knowledge about the game. 1 base tax is 4 OE before admin efficiency. What do you think happens when you take a 12 tax province, a 10 tax province, and a couple of smaller ones? "How horribly over-extended were you"? Well, if you knew enough about the game, the answer is probably "had no OE previously whatsoever, or well under 100%".

No OE whatsoever previously would imply 65 base tax in 5 provinces. Which is the five most valuable provinces (and rather widely scattered ones) in China.

 

[Path]

Ming provinces having such high autonomy means it's easy to gobble up a lot of their high-BT provinces, which is great if you're trying to score bonus merchants ... and not so great if you grab more than you can handle. In principle I don't have a problem with the game punishing players for being stupid, but the way religious rebels work now is just bad. If you go overboard and end up with large-scale rebellions as a result, you could and probably should lose that land and more, but ending up in a permanent state of being unable to do anything about your OE because the rebel stacks are too large to kill and their demands are unenforcable is inane. Religious rebels should just flip provinces in a similar manner to nationalists if they can't enforce religion (allowing them to always enforce their religious demands is too abusable by far) and join their previous owner or, failing that, a nearby tag with the same religion.

 

[ashmizen]

This is probably why the British, despite having taken most of India by 1820, did not take a single province in their 3 Opium wars that happened AFTER the end of EU IV. They took HK, at the time the size of a town, about 1/10 of a EU IV province in size. You probably took like 1/4, 1/3 of China. The scale of difference there.......

 

[ashmizen]

It's kind of screwed up that the rebels are Confusion, not Ming patriots. He should able to just give those provinces back, not convert to a religion he can't convert to.

Although, can't he just sell the provinces, or release them as a subject? I'm confused why he is releasing other parts of the British Empire over this.

 

[Straigthtsilver]

A lot of people in this forum have the habit of spewing vitriol or 'advice' while they lack basic reading and cognitive skills I am afraid.

Correction: when he retaliates on thinly veiled, nigh off-topic insults from random people.

Jesus Christ, you have the nerve to call my posts vitriol and then respond with that?

If I came across as crass or angry then I apologize, that wasn't my intent. I was genuinely surprised at how someone can manage to accumulate that much OE in such a short period of time without trying to blob far beyond their capabilities. I agree that the Religious Rebels' rather silly lack of demand acceptance is off, but my point about OE being necessary to contain crazy expansion stands.

The fact that he framed his question, and later responses, with so many expletives didn't exactly sit well with me. I'm happy to offer advice to people, but don't expect a sweet tone if you've spent several paragraphs cussing and then call a genuine question 'nonsense.'

 

[Mztr44]

It's kind of screwed up that the rebels are Confusion, not Ming patriots. He should able to just give those provinces back, not convert to a religion he can't convert to.

Although, can't he just sell the provinces, or release them as a subject? I'm confused why he is releasing other parts of the British Empire over this.

The OP explained how he cannot divest himself of the provinces because they are occupied by the rebels. From what I understand, these 300k Confucian rebels are split amongst a few different provinces and not all gathered together in a big doomstack but maybe 3 stacks of 100k or so? Unless i'm mistaken, rebels reinforce slowly unless they are being supported. Why not take out a ton of loans to support a temporary massive army to go out and wipe the rebels and reclaim the provinces? Might lose a couple times and be forced to retreat, but they can be defeated. Granted it may be too late if the OP has released a lot of territory already.

While I do agree that not being able to accept the rebel's religious demands is a bit flawed, at the same time I don't think the "Accept Demands" should be an easy button either.

 

[Pilot00]

Jesus Christ, you have the nerve to call my posts vitriol and then respond with that?

You are answering your own question dont you:

I'm happy to offer advice to people, but don't expect a sweet tone if you've spent several paragraphs cussing

I can understand the notion, of not passing your words as you meant it and that they got interpenetrated as aggressive, but you can alleviate this by spending a couple minutes toning your response down by editing yes?

If I came across as crass or angry then I apologize, that wasn't my intent. I was genuinely surprised at how someone can manage to accumulate that much OE in such a short period of time without trying to blob far beyond their capabilities. I agree that the Religious Rebels' rather silly lack of demand acceptance is off, but my point about OE being necessary to contain crazy expansion stands.

No it doesn't, and it doesn't because the mechanism's give him no option to deal with the fallout of his actions, even if that means tear him apart in the process. As it is he is facing a wall right now.