"Condottiere" fleets and externalized conflict

[Botox]

If they are hired as mercenaries, it's a trade contact and defenitely shouldn't have consequences, since the empire per se is neutral and is only selling their arms at the best payer, as there aren't with today's mercenaries. On the other hand, if it-'s some kind of military support like it happened during WWII or the Spanish Civil War, then yes.

Mh... thats a bit like "A gun is not killing other people, its the person firing it".
I dont know, if someone is selling toxic gas or atomic bombs to someone who uses it to kill your people and your family, wouldnt you be a bit... I dont know... furious with the person who sold that stuff? Or would you say "Ah no, its ok, its just a commercial venture of some sort"?

After all its not some dubious pirate stuff, its the pride of your navy.

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

I can see how people might dislike a mercenary nation; lots of people dislike mercenaries, after all. However they might still choose to hire out your services when they needed them.

Imagine a megacorporation whose wars are fought with entirely mercenary fleets and armies. That would be an interesting war.

 

[Sir Leningrad]

Mh... thats a bit like "A gun is not killing other people, its the person firing it".
I dont know, if someone is selling toxic gas or atomic bombs to someone who uses it to kill your people and your family, wouldnt you be a bit... I dont know... furious with the person who sold that stuff? Or would you say "Ah no, its ok, its just a commercial venture of some sort"?

After all its not some dubious pirate stuff, its the pride of your navy.

We are not speaking about arms dealing with highly polemic weaponry, we are speaking about mercenaries, wich wouldn't be an official state institution. Maybe there could be the case where if you won a battle against them and they left some debris you could have an investigation project and discover where are they from, and if you have good relationtship with them worsen it (since it's like "hey, I thought we were friends, you don't do that to friends") or if yo had bad relations, worsen them, but if you are more or less neutral then be like "meh, they're only doing business". It could also be influenced by wich kind of government or ethos the empires have, militaristic ones not caring at all and pacifist caring a lot, and depending on if the armies are using some kind of specially violent weapons or being cruel to populations, and so on. But just having a straight malus wouldn't feel cool or plausible.

 

[Dracogen]

Maybe the condottieri system could be tied to a advanced government type? And other advanced gov types could have their own "special diplomatic trading options"?

For example:

Mega Corps: System exploitation rights, the corp gets the income from a uninhabited system for the duration of the deal and can construct resource exploitation stations in the system. Useful if the trading partner has a system that lacks an habitable planet and needs something else far more than the reesources in that system.

Illuminated Technocracy: Illuminated advisors, the technocracy sends mentat style advisors to the trading partner. This gives a substantial bonus to something but the sender gets valuable information in return.

 

[safire]

Yes, if there is some kind of (diplo) consequence.
Why? Because I dont think that any empire would be glad or would overlook if someone would rent out their fleets to their enemies. "Oh hey... those ships do look like if they were from the Argonian Empire and hey, there are Argonians on those ships, but I'm sure the Argonians arent involved in it..."

Imagine the US would have rented out their troops to the Ukraine during the Crimea Crisis the last 3 years, or do you think Russia would have just sat there and said ok?

While the US and its military wouldn't be involved directly, I could easily see private military companies getting involved in Crimea or anywhere else for that matter. Despite the usual criticisms of mercenaries that go back into antiquity, PMCs like Blackwater have only grown and the privatization of war is a continuing trend.

I could see individualistic space-nations supporting and giving tacit approval to such groups, though I'm not sure if the player should be able to control said armies. Maybe something similar to the merc armies in CK2 would make sense, except that they would only appear in those empires that 'allowed' them through policy or otherwise, and then they would forward part of their profits to their home empire?

And sure, other empires could dislike them a bit for perpetuating this stuff, but I wouldn't imagine a huge diplo penalty except perhaps from fanatical pacifists.

 

[Botox]

We are not speaking about arms dealing with highly polemic weaponry, we are speaking about mercenaries, wich wouldn't be an official state institution. Maybe there could be the case where if you won a battle against them and they left some debris you could have an investigation project and discover where are they from, and if you have good relationtship with them worsen it (since it's like "hey, I thought we were friends, you don't do that to friends") or if yo had bad relations, worsen them, but if you are more or less neutral then be like "meh, they're only doing business". It could also be influenced by wich kind of government or ethos the empires have, militaristic ones not caring at all and pacifist caring a lot, and depending on if the armies are using some kind of specially violent weapons or being cruel to populations, and so on. But just having a straight malus wouldn't feel cool or plausible.

Yes these examples were highly polemic. But if a state lends troops to someone else which kill your people why would it be any different then highly polemic weapons?
If empire A leases troops and ships from empire B to beat empire C in a war, and these ships, troops, whatever are used to kill people, do you rly believe that it wouldnt matter for empire C? They would surely be pissed, no matter what government or ethos they have. After all YOU were also responsible for a lost war and/or for losses in that war as you helped out their enemies.

If the US wouldnt have actively intervened in WW2 and just sent material to USSR and Great Britain, Germany would totaly have said "Ah no its ok... they just supported our largest and most dangerous enemies, no problem at all" and if the US would have sent material to Germany I doubt Britain would just have said "Oh cmon guys... play nice..."

It would be a different thing if you allow mercs to use your empire to build up their fleets and lease it to the highest bidder where you get a share of their income, but then it wouldnt be the "Royal Anoriath Navy" then rather some merc corporation that has no ties to your government or empire.

 

[Milten]

Maybe something similar to the merc armies in CK2 would make sense, except that they would only appear in those empires that 'allowed' them through policy or otherwise, and then they would forward part of their profits to their home empire?

More like semi-vassals, they promise not to attack you/pay taxes - you get emergency army back-up (and judging looks from neighbors). But that's part of Corporate DLC anyway.