Conclave advice needed

[Gnostiko]

I need some advice for a twofold venture, with an Ironman Byzzie game I'm currently grinding through.

First of all, I was going for the "Yes Men" achievement; I briefly experimented with attempting to fill my council with characters based solely on a high opinion of me, but not all of them turn out to be Loyalists, which I thought would be the sole criteria (i.e. characters with a 100+ opinion of me). Although if there is a quicker alternate way, like starting as a particular character on a particular date, I'm all ears. Cheevo hunting might not be for everyone, but I thought I could kill two birds with stone as I'm under the impression it would help with my second, more immediate, problem, which is...

Weakening the Council. My council is currently staffed by vassal Kings, with one Loyalist, one malcontent, and the rest being scattered across the categories. I can't pass any laws at the moment because the entire council votes against me, and I would eventually like to get to abolishing the council for this reason. In earlier reigns I was able to clean up the aftermath of Increase Council Power/Elective Monarchy revolts by revoking titles and gifting them to higher-opinion vassals, but with Council revocation and execution laws the council never allows me to 'clean up' after a revolt (which kinda negates Imperial Administration). So now I'm stuck with every new sovereign having to slap down Council Power/Elective Monarchy revolts. I tend to pass out councillor positions to 'strong' vassals, over capable ones, just to keep my vassal kings out of factions, but their middling attributes mean my Spymaster and Chancellor are useless at Improve Diplomacy/Scheme. The new education system isn't helping, as I end up with a lot of bad traits for sovereigns, combined with the inevitable 'vicious rumours' malus.

Also, is it just me, or does it seem you can't entice vassals to leave the Increase Council Power faction? I've seen vassals with 45+ opinion who won't leave the faction, whereas that seems the benchmark for leaving other factions.

Also; has there been a huge nerf on send gift? I'm not sure how the mechanics have changed, but I've seen vassals willing to take a bribe for a 20+ opinion boost, but most only increase for lesser than 10.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Sammy5IsAlive]

I'm no expert but my 2c would be...

If the achievement is all you are looking for then my suggestion would be to have a character with a long reign, 5 sons (the more content the better), gavelkind succession and enough land to hand out. If you give each son land and a seat on the council there is a good chance they'll be loyalist. Obviously all hell will break loose when your character dies but if the achievement is the aim that doesn't matter. Happy sons are the only ones that I have seen consistently turn out as loyalists.

In terms of passing laws/avoiding factions there are two possibilities, both of which have longer term downsides that you need to balance with the short term benefits. You can ask for council support in exchange for giving that councillor a favour on you. I think they vote with you for two years? So if you need to get particular things done then ask for support, get the right law in place, do what you have to do and then live with the fact that in the future the councillors might use the favour to force you into something you don't want. With some law changes a councilors objection is weak enough that they will follow another councilor with a high diplomacy stat, in that situation you can ask for support from the latter, get your laws in place and then sack them off the council if you are worried about them turning on you in future.

With factions, one option is to arrange marriages and NAPs with the most powerful vassals. My understanding is that a vassal with a NAP with you will not join factions. You have to remember to re-negotiate the pact on succession. The downside is that potentially you can end up with vassals with claims on your titles which can cause longer term problems.

You can use your spymaster to try and get vassals out of factions using the scheme mission on a county in their demesne. The spymaster position is one that if possible I'll have filled by the best person regardless of 'powerful vassal' penalties.

Yes the gifts have been nerfed. To get a councilor onside you can buy a favour off them - this is very expensive but will allow you to request their support without giving them a favour on you.

 

[Anastasius]

Also, is it just me, or does it seem you can't entice vassals to leave the Increase Council Power faction? I've seen vassals with 45+ opinion who won't leave the faction, whereas that seems the benchmark for leaving other factions.

No it's not just you,I'm having vassals with 70+ opinion joining this faction,constantly... I'm neither exporting daughters by the dozen, nor am I made out of money,and spymasters can do only so much when all of your realm is joining the faction. So it's constant civil wars,or just giving up power completely. This eventually turns into a grind making you reluctant to go above duke tier.

 

[Sammy5IsAlive]

No it's not just you,I'm having vassals with 70+ opinion joining this faction,constantly... I'm neither exporting daughters by the dozen, nor am I made out of money,and spymasters can do only so much when all of your realm is joining the faction. So it's constant civil wars,or just giving up power completely. This eventually turns into a grind making you reluctant to go above duke tier.

Remember that nephews/nieces/brothers/sisters and more rarely uncles and aunts also can give NAPs.

That particular faction does need some tweaking though. If it doesn't already exist there needs to be a 'par' level of council power that only hostile/ambitious vassals want to go above. I think it would be a good idea to have some kind of cool down between faction revolts of the same type.

 

[Gnostiko]

If the achievement is all you are looking for then my suggestion would be to have a character with a long reign, 5 sons (the more content the better), gavelkind succession and enough land to hand out. If you give each son land and a seat on the council there is a good chance they'll be loyalist. Obviously all hell will break loose when your character dies but if the achievement is the aim that doesn't matter. Happy sons are the only ones that I have seen consistently turn out as loyalists.

I just figured getting an all-Loyalist council would help me nerf the council laws, and getting the cheevo would be an added bonus. I guess I can start a new game and try to bribe random courtiers to make Loyalist councillors. That or just wait till endgame so I don't have to worry about torpedoing the realm by firing an all-powerful councillor.

With factions, one option is to arrange marriages and NAPs with the most powerful vassals. My understanding is that a vassal with a NAP with you will not join factions. You have to remember to re-negotiate the pact on succession. The downside is that potentially you can end up with vassals with claims on your titles which can cause longer term problems.

This is one of the better things to come out of Conclave; I now have a use for those deadbeat relatives I never really cared about before. Problem is, as of right-now, my family has gone through a breeding drought.

You can use your spymaster to try and get vassals out of factions using the scheme mission on a county in their demesne. The spymaster position is one that if possible I'll have filled by the best person regardless of 'powerful vassal' penalties.

Good advice, I may just have to suck it up and hire someone competent for the job - I haven't seem Scheme fire in 2-3 generations.

Yes the gifts have been nerfed. To get a councilor onside you can buy a favour off them - this is very expensive but will allow you to request their support without giving them a favour on you.

Ah, I entirely forgot that buying a favour doesn't require you to return it. I've just been using 'request council support'.

 

[Cat Crusade]

I find that characters who are unlanded or baron level and those who have max oppinion of the liege are way more likely to be loyalists. Whereas even a max oppinion strong vassal likes to go gloryhound/pragmatist on me. I got the achievement with a mix of max relation friends and unlanded sycophants through a diplomacy focused emperor. I have managed to get a vassal queen to become a loyalist through bribery, giving land and so on, but it took a while for the vassal's disposition to switch to loyalist in these cases, it may not be an instant thing. Basically stick people who like you lots and aren't powerful onto the council and they're very likely to be loyalists. In the event its someone more powerful it may take a while for the disposition to switch I noticed.