Woohoo, to claim actualy outnumberment I think the ratio needs to be at least 2:3- you asked example when sweeds outnumbered russians, i give it to youThey had ~500 man more.
Concerns about lategame warfare balance
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Another Russian here. Ok, let's stop this stupid random-arguing beetwen Easterns and Westerns... For that we have East vs West. There isn't any western conspiration here against Russians, and there aren't Russian workers drinking vodka and smoking near flamable liquids while working -you can't judge a whole nation by a few idiots you saw-, and also not that long ago there was the URSS with their nice education, discipline, soldiers and specialists (I'm not saying you lived well or bad at those times, just pointing the good things that the URSS had which are the same we're discussing here).
But hey, we're not talking about the URSS soldiers & discipline. We're talking about Russia from the XV century to the XIX century. Yes, at that time-span Russia didn't have a proper professional training program, didn't were the super-badasses in everything like some people thinks, and all of that. Russia was a decadent nation with VERY VERY strong potential - its people was capable of everything, but the circumstances didn't let them show all of their potential. Yes, the differences in EU3 were too much, but they toned down so no problem there. You want to have a nice and profesional army? Ok, westernize. That's how Russia gainded all its power and showed all of its potential, by adpoting the Western innovative ideas. Don't mess the modern Western world with the older one, now the Western is just a different culture, but at those times it was a totally different mentality that lead the path of its peoples down the road of progress. You CAN survive as Eastern Russia, and you CAN scratch the Western powers if you westernize. Do you want to think that Eastern Russia was powerful and awesome? Ok, you can lie to yourself. But the truth is, that Western and Eastern was a very different concept at that time, and that Eastern powers relied in numbers... When those powers decided to westernize and don't stay conservative was when they grow to a superpower level - Westernize doesn't mean "Bonjour monsieur, now I'm a very nice tea-drinker gentleman" and Eastern doesn't mean "ARRRRGH, come on comrades, let's show those French puppies what the Russian Winter is!". Stop using the modern East vs West concepts to discuss the Renaissence/Reformation.
Russia was powerful because of its numbers, but was very conservative (something that didn't matter at the Middle Ages, but tthat started to matter at those times). After that it adopted the innovative western ideas. Russia grow up to its maximum edge, and turned into one of the biggest superpowers of the world. THE END - Want to have the most poweful troops? Westernize. That's how the game works and it reflects somewhat good the situation, Early troops can fight the Western powers, but the later you go into the game the more the conservative ideology of Russia affects its development.
But hey, we're not talking about the URSS soldiers & discipline. We're talking about Russia from the XV century to the XIX century. Yes, at that time-span Russia didn't have a proper professional training program, didn't were the super-badasses in everything like some people thinks, and all of that. Russia was a decadent nation with VERY VERY strong potential - its people was capable of everything, but the circumstances didn't let them show all of their potential. Yes, the differences in EU3 were too much, but they toned down so no problem there. You want to have a nice and profesional army? Ok, westernize. That's how Russia gainded all its power and showed all of its potential, by adpoting the Western innovative ideas. Don't mess the modern Western world with the older one, now the Western is just a different culture, but at those times it was a totally different mentality that lead the path of its peoples down the road of progress. You CAN survive as Eastern Russia, and you CAN scratch the Western powers if you westernize. Do you want to think that Eastern Russia was powerful and awesome? Ok, you can lie to yourself. But the truth is, that Western and Eastern was a very different concept at that time, and that Eastern powers relied in numbers... When those powers decided to westernize and don't stay conservative was when they grow to a superpower level - Westernize doesn't mean "Bonjour monsieur, now I'm a very nice tea-drinker gentleman" and Eastern doesn't mean "ARRRRGH, come on comrades, let's show those French puppies what the Russian Winter is!". Stop using the modern East vs West concepts to discuss the Renaissence/Reformation.
Russia was powerful because of its numbers, but was very conservative (something that didn't matter at the Middle Ages, but tthat started to matter at those times). After that it adopted the innovative western ideas. Russia grow up to its maximum edge, and turned into one of the biggest superpowers of the world. THE END - Want to have the most poweful troops? Westernize. That's how the game works and it reflects somewhat good the situation, Early troops can fight the Western powers, but the later you go into the game the more the conservative ideology of Russia affects its development.
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And that horse completely mauled Catherina, should we give the horse nation superior units because of that?
That's actually a popular story that it's not considered totally true. Yes, it may be true, but it may be a legend.
Thank you, this is what I have been trying to say the whole time! Except I do disagree with the drunk workers part, if it happened, they must exist.
What a completely meaningless thing to say, especially to someone who has no emotional strings to pull on this topic. I think I'm done with this conversation.
I'm saying nothing about the quality of their soldiers in real life history. I'm just suggesting some abstract values for the game to be balanced. And my suggestion specifically was that other cultures should be at less of a disadvantage against Western troops than they were in Eu3.
I have a lot of respect for Russia's military history; I've learned about figures like Suvorov and Kutuzov and read about their successes and struggles. I am not out to insult Russians or anyone else, I am only making a suggestion for Europa to be balanced the way we want it to be (which is not everyone being equally strong).
The Russians in the game have such enormous advantages in manpower and force limits that they will crush any other European country easily if their forces are equal on a 1:1 basis. In order to have a game that loosely models real history, where Western Europeans carved out footholds on every continent, they need to get some advantages.
That said, I think in EU3 that the inherent advantages given to Western units were too much: Western troops should not be able to attack a technologically inferior army across a river into a mountainous province that outnumbers them 3:1 and slaughter them with 3:1 casualty ratio. That is ridiculous, which is why I suggested Western units get a bit of a nerfing compared to EU3.
I have a lot of respect for Russia's military history; I've learned about figures like Suvorov and Kutuzov and read about their successes and struggles. I am not out to insult Russians or anyone else, I am only making a suggestion for Europa to be balanced the way we want it to be (which is not everyone being equally strong).
The Russians in the game have such enormous advantages in manpower and force limits that they will crush any other European country easily if their forces are equal on a 1:1 basis. In order to have a game that loosely models real history, where Western Europeans carved out footholds on every continent, they need to get some advantages.
That said, I think in EU3 that the inherent advantages given to Western units were too much: Western troops should not be able to attack a technologically inferior army across a river into a mountainous province that outnumbers them 3:1 and slaughter them with 3:1 casualty ratio. That is ridiculous, which is why I suggested Western units get a bit of a nerfing compared to EU3.
- lol so only you are the one who allowed to nitpick?
- WoW just WoW. So "interesting" to see today a loyal disciple of dr.Goebbels...
- they "win" only because russians allowed them than.
- indeed
- really? Sweeds are eastern?
Yes of course they exist, but they are like the Spanish Party Hard cliche: they exist, but they're only a part of the population. If it seems that they're a big part of the culture is just because they're THAT stupid that eclipse the rest of the nice things.
I think I nitpick the least here really. I am saintly, and kind.
What does World of Warcraft and Dr. Goebbels have in common with the mythical death of Czar Katarina? Who knows! Stay tuned to the next episode of "RussianBias" in order to find out the answer!
A win is a win, it is not a fail and that is what matters.
I was referring to the wars Russia won when outnumbered, in most wars against Sweden it was the Russians that had the much larger army, except in the Theatre War that had equal forces of course.
No it's true: Los gente esta muy loca! WTF!?
2Danny-Dynamita: 1. you have some strange ideas about your country... I guess Fursenko reforms did not go so well afterall... 2. westernization is impossible if you not significantly lag behind, and east tech not lagging that much behind west but they still get screwed by inferior units.
- you did not go in to specifics
- lol ofcourse when some russian kid showed up and wrote that his home country are exactly like west thinks it is, you will approve.
- we already established that you are Goebbels loyal acolyte, no need for further proofs.
- problem is that russians are not the only ones who got shafted in unit strenght department.
Russians never in history were more advanced than the west. Except maybe in 1960? when Yuri Gagarin beat the west into space.
-The game reflects this.
-It is not impossible to A-history become a very strong Russian nation
P.S. I love playing Russia in EU and love Russian history, i'm not being antagonistic I just want to understand what your problem is, it seems to reflect history without turning Russia into a wimp to me.
RussianBias... are you RussianBiased?
-The game reflects this.
-It is not impossible to A-history become a very strong Russian nation
P.S. I love playing Russia in EU and love Russian history, i'm not being antagonistic I just want to understand what your problem is, it seems to reflect history without turning Russia into a wimp to me.
RussianBias... are you RussianBiased?
- you definitely have some strange thoughts.
- i dont know, maybe you will be the one who will tell that? After all you was good at russophobic storytelling before.
- it was sheer luck, they did not achieved that result on their own.
- except they did not had that "much" larger army.
This guy is clearly trolling, just look at his name and the fact that if you disagree he states you're a Nazi.
- 1. where and when in heaven i stated that russia is in to space? Especially in EU timeframe. 2. problem are in "strange" eastern unit stats, because even if eastern nation somehow will manage to compete with west in terms of tech it still will be shafted by inferior units.
The difficulty in distinguishing between nationalism and trolling is like the Paradox forum's version of Poe's Law.