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@Solon
Well said! Agree totally.
@Parabola
Agreed, but I reckon we'll see more urban areas added in 1.2 and some cities moved (like Stalingrad). I hope some of the names are changed too (Port Said, Alexandria for instance).
Well said! Agree totally.
@Parabola
Agreed, but I reckon we'll see more urban areas added in 1.2 and some cities moved (like Stalingrad). I hope some of the names are changed too (Port Said, Alexandria for instance).
As a matter of interest, why's that?
At the very least there's a new map mode included (more hoi2 ish). Anyway, we'll see.
As said above, forts are a so-so thing.
On the one hand, few forts are very costly and you need many more than in HoI2. On the other hand, practical makes them much cheaper after you have finished the first 10-20 and static defence can become a fair tactic once a fort costs 1,5 IC for 90 days...
The problem is: Again the big countries benefit much more than the small ones. They IC whore anyway and thus get cheap and fast build forts, making them *even more* powerful as they already are.
Another thing: With the new HQ system, higher CA bonus and better ATK value for ART and ENG, you can easily roll over lvl 10 forts anyway. For GER, the maginot line is a cakewalk, even if you don't use your airforce: Place Fortressbuster along the whole HQ hierachy, add ART to your INF brigades and just attack. And remember: There is even a river in front of those french provinces, so a single lvl 10 fort would crumble even faster...
On the one hand, few forts are very costly and you need many more than in HoI2. On the other hand, practical makes them much cheaper after you have finished the first 10-20 and static defence can become a fair tactic once a fort costs 1,5 IC for 90 days...
The problem is: Again the big countries benefit much more than the small ones. They IC whore anyway and thus get cheap and fast build forts, making them *even more* powerful as they already are.
Another thing: With the new HQ system, higher CA bonus and better ATK value for ART and ENG, you can easily roll over lvl 10 forts anyway. For GER, the maginot line is a cakewalk, even if you don't use your airforce: Place Fortressbuster along the whole HQ hierachy, add ART to your INF brigades and just attack. And remember: There is even a river in front of those french provinces, so a single lvl 10 fort would crumble even faster...
Because changing the map doesn't actually fix any of the real problems with the game - it's a purely cosmetic thing.
The new map mode is a UI enhancement.
Well adding more urban areas in the USSR would make it harder to invade, which would be a good thing!
re outflanking the forts (and even pillboxes) - a lot of forts were built with almost no "forward" lines of fire, but massive concrete walls/earthworks facing forwards.
The main armament was facing left/right-forwards, so that attacking units would be caught in crossfire from their flanks, and due to overlapping fields of fire, if you turned to flank them, you'd be under fire from front and back.
The area in "front" of the forts was meant to be saturated by indirect artillery, and some cover provided by smaller anti-infantry pillboxes. I'd recommend going and seeing one for yourself, it's quite interesting
As for damage, I saw one of the Czech forts (Dobrosov), where Germans were testing special bunker-buster ammunition Röchling. Despite firing point-blank (200m direct fire), they didn't manage to break through the wall (it's about half-way through destroyed) - remains of one of them is still embedded in the concerete wall.
The only internal damage was from one hit via the removed fire-slit. For comparison, in Belgium Röchling managed to penetrate 3.5m (~12') concrete walls.
That said, I think it would be singularly unpleasant experience being inside during a bombardment like this, and I doubt anyone would be very efficient in doing anything even a few minutes after it was finished.
V.
The main armament was facing left/right-forwards, so that attacking units would be caught in crossfire from their flanks, and due to overlapping fields of fire, if you turned to flank them, you'd be under fire from front and back.
The area in "front" of the forts was meant to be saturated by indirect artillery, and some cover provided by smaller anti-infantry pillboxes. I'd recommend going and seeing one for yourself, it's quite interesting
As for damage, I saw one of the Czech forts (Dobrosov), where Germans were testing special bunker-buster ammunition Röchling. Despite firing point-blank (200m direct fire), they didn't manage to break through the wall (it's about half-way through destroyed) - remains of one of them is still embedded in the concerete wall.
The only internal damage was from one hit via the removed fire-slit. For comparison, in Belgium Röchling managed to penetrate 3.5m (~12') concrete walls.
That said, I think it would be singularly unpleasant experience being inside during a bombardment like this, and I doubt anyone would be very efficient in doing anything even a few minutes after it was finished.
V.
.........
The Japanese dug in and poured some concrete, but never reached the level nor sophistication of fortification represented by the Maginot Line, the Siegfried Line, the Atlantic Wall, nor Norwegian coastal defenses prepared by the Germans. The Japanese had to bring everything to those islands by ship, and they never had the shipping, engineers nor industrial production to make major fortifications a reality IRL. Not to say that HoI3 players, as Japan can't rectify that oversight?
........
Solon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_peleliu
From the 1.2 readme.txt @ http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427914
# Map
- Revised calculations to determine which province has which terrain.
This may apply to urban!
Actually it depends who made the fort as Germans, Czechs, French, and Russian's had completely different ideas on how forts were to be made.
The French were accutley hurt about the whole Verdun issue where the Germans captured a French fort in WWI and they wasted over a 100,000 lives trying to get it back so when they made the Maginot line they designed it so that it could be taken from the rear if the Germans did capture the lines somehow from the front.
Sadly it proved to be a fatal flaw.
Germans on the other hand had the idea that forts were to be bypassed by the enemy and they could use those as staging points to attack from out the back of the bunker.
Of course most of the time they were bypassed and then bottled up even though some of the Flakturn tower bunkers were still fighting up until the last day of the war after being surrounded by a week or two.
The problem with HoI is that you really don't have the option to say where the bunker is facing and that the Germans get to use the Maginot line against the Allies if they ever get pushed out of France.
Brillant article, thanks for sharing. It shows exactly what could be done with a well constructed fortification.
Looking at the Peleliu map it is clear that the area of intense fortification (circled in red) was only about 2,000 yards (or 2 kilometers) long, and not overly wide.
If you compare this to the Maginot Line:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line#German_invasion_in_World_War_II
You get a sense of similar build and purpose, that is to say lots of time and money were applied; but not even close to the overall scale of the ML, nor the 'creature comforts' that were built into the ML.
That notwithstanding, the Peleliu fortifications performed just as well as one of the integrated fort complexes in the ML were meant to, holding off the attackers for over 2 months by themselves.
As the article makes clear, the defending Japanese 14th Division (essentially) defeated the first division sent against it (1st Marine Division), mauling it so badly that it was eventually deemed wise to withdraw it from combat. It also took so long to reduce the fort that had there been any sort of credible outside assistance or relieving force available from the Imperial Navy/Army that the US forces would have failed.
One wonders if the game properly models this?
Solon