Concerning Titles

[TheLoneGunman]

Hey folks! I've been away for a while, but recently picked up VV and I've got plenty of spare time lately thanks to a slumping economy, so I decided I'd get back into doing some modding!

My question regards Titles...

Basically, I've got this crazy idea regarding how the Romans continually changed the way their titles worked (such as the number of offices or the length of the term), and I was wondering if it would be possible to give a single title multiple properties depending on the situation.

Or would it simply be easier to just create seperate titles with the same name and have one override the other with the up-to-date restrictions and effects?

I'd really like to link specific titles to laws that could be passed by the government and use "have_law" to determine if the title can be applied.

That way you could pass a law to increase the number of tribunes, or extend a term for a minor title (I understand that major titles require the actual government type to change in order to restrict term limits).

What do you guys think?

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

I like the idea , but i am also already overwhelmed with the amount of titles that are offered by cursus honorum today. But it wouldnt be more titles only different effects, so it surely would be interesting and expand internal politics play.

 

[Descartes]

I like it, having a few more laws wouldn't hurt. You could create different versions of the same title and make the game convert all titles to the new version as soon as you passed the law.

 

[Cheexsta]

Descartes' solution is definitely the easiest and least headache-inducing method by far.

Alternatively, you could place several limits in the effect section for the title, which should work but would require lots of fiddling and slamming heads against the desk.

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Thanks for the response guys!

I think using Laws to remove the old title and install a new title with the same name but different attributes seems like the best solution in this case.

Just think about it, perhaps you wish to expand the power of an office, or maybe even limit its power if the current office-holder is a pain in your side.

Or maybe you want to expand the number of Praetors you can appoint since you now have a much larger empire.

It would make for a great addition to Cursus Honorum for sure, considering the power and influence of various offices changed much as the Republic changed.

I'm going to do some experimenting, and once I get a good working event script written up for this I'll put it up here to share with everyone so they can include it in any of their mods if they wish.

 

[Descartes]

I look forward to seeing what you come up with, it would really make the CH titles a lot more interesting.

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Ran into a few problems already with the idea.

I decided to try and edit some vanilla titles and tie them to a law already in existence.

Unfortunately for me, I haven't been able to restrict titles via laws even if I use the "has_law" condition in the restrictions.

My other problem now is, assuming I do get the new titles to work, I need to find a way to strip the old titles from people that already have them.

So far neither problem has been solved.

title_plebeian_aedile = {

	grantable = yes	
	grant_limit = 2 	

	allow = {
		is_female = no 
		country = { government = republic }
		age = 18
		prisoner = no
		NOT = {
			OR = {
				has_title = title_censor
				is_governor = yes
				has_office = religious_tech
				has_office = civic_tech
				has_office = construction_tech
				has_office = naval_tech
				has_office = land_tech
				is_ruler = yes
				is_general = yes
				is_admiral = yes
				has_law = lex_aelia_et_fufia
			}
		}
	}
		
	gain_effect = {
		loyalty = 5
	}
	lose_trigger = {
		OR =  {
			prisoner = yes
			has_title = title_censor
			is_governor = yes
			has_office = religious_tech
			has_office = civic_tech
			has_office = construction_tech
			has_office = naval_tech
			has_office = land_tech
			is_ruler = yes
			is_general = yes
			is_admiral = yes
		 }
	}

	monthly_character_wealth = -0.01
	monthly_character_popularity = 0.01
	prominence = 5
}

title_tribune_of_the_soldiers = {

	grantable = yes
	grant_limit = 24 
	
	allow = {
		is_female = no 
		country = { government = republic }
		age = 18
		prisoner = no
		has_law = lex_aelia_et_fufia
		NOT = {
			OR = {
				has_title = title_censor
				is_governor = yes
				has_office = religious_tech
				has_office = civic_tech
				has_office = construction_tech
				has_office = naval_tech
				has_office = land_tech
				is_ruler = yes
				is_general = yes
				is_admiral = yes
			}
		}
	}
		
	gain_effect = {
		loyalty = 5
	}
	lose_trigger = {
		OR =  {
			prisoner = yes
			has_title = title_censor
			is_governor = yes
			has_office = religious_tech
			has_office = civic_tech
			has_office = construction_tech
			has_office = naval_tech
			has_office = land_tech
			is_ruler = yes
			is_general = yes
			is_admiral = yes
		 }
	}

	prominence = 5
	remove_title = title_plebeian_aedile
}

I think the problem with stripping the title could be the fact that I didn't use the "lose_trigger".

But still, the initial "have_law" stipulation should prevent the title from being handed out at all unless the law is passed and it hasn't worked as of yet.

:wacko:

 

[mate0815]

have you tried out to put the has_law restriction into the country = { } section? i think the law is given to the country, not to any character... :wacko:

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Whoops!

Well that's certainly a start in the right direction!

As you can see I'm a little rusty! hehehehe

Will edit, and report back any new findings!

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Ok another update.

I've tried both

country =

and

ruler =

Since I noticed that any time laws are being used to cancel each other out they follow under the "ruler ="

Unfortunately, neither still seem to work.

This is upsetting as I'd really like to use laws to prevent offices from being granted until the law is passed.

Dismissing the old title can be handled via an event or just stripping all of the old titles from any of their members, so its not as important as the actual restrictions imposed by the laws themelves.

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Yet another new update.

Just had a breakthrough, I was apparantly a little too quick to judge that what I was approaching was wrong.

Apparantly it is indeed possible to limit an office's availability by passing a law.

I'm still trying to play with it, but things are looking much more promising now!

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Success!

I've now managed to have the Plebeian Aedile title made no longer available when a law is passed. When the same law is passed the Tribune of the Soldiers now becomes available. I've also managed to have the appointment to Tribune of Soldiers remove the title Plebeian Aedile!

Here is the code:

title_plebeian_aedile = {

	grantable = yes	
	grant_limit = 2 	

	allow = {
		is_female = no 
		country = { government = republic }
		age = 18
		prisoner = no
		NOT = {
		country = { has_law = lex_aelia_et_fufia }
			OR = {
				has_title = title_censor
				is_governor = yes
				has_office = religious_tech
				has_office = civic_tech
				has_office = construction_tech
				has_office = naval_tech
				has_office = land_tech
				is_ruler = yes
				is_general = yes
				is_admiral = yes
			}
		}
	}
		
	gain_effect = {
		loyalty = 5
	}
	lose_trigger = {
		OR =  {
			prisoner = yes
			has_title = title_censor
			is_governor = yes
			has_office = religious_tech
			has_office = civic_tech
			has_office = construction_tech
			has_office = naval_tech
			has_office = land_tech
			is_ruler = yes
			is_general = yes
			is_admiral = yes
		 }
	}

	monthly_character_wealth = -0.01
	monthly_character_popularity = 0.01
	prominence = 5
}

title_tribune_of_the_soldiers = {

	grantable = yes
	grant_limit = 24 
	
	allow = {
		is_female = no 
		country = { government = republic }
		age = 18
		prisoner = no
		country = { has_law = lex_aelia_et_fufia }
		NOT = {
			OR = {
				has_title = title_censor
				is_governor = yes
				has_office = religious_tech
				has_office = civic_tech
				has_office = construction_tech
				has_office = naval_tech
				has_office = land_tech
				is_ruler = yes
				is_general = yes
				is_admiral = yes
			}
		}
	}
		
	gain_effect = {
		loyalty = 5
		remove_title = title_plebeian_aedile
	}
	lose_trigger = {
		OR =  {
			prisoner = yes
			has_title = title_censor
			is_governor = yes
			has_office = religious_tech
			has_office = civic_tech
			has_office = construction_tech
			has_office = naval_tech
			has_office = land_tech
			is_ruler = yes
			is_general = yes
			is_admiral = yes
		 }
	}

	prominence = 5
}

It was actually much simpler than I thought.

Now the fun can begin!

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Along with my success I've also made another important discovery I hadn't realized before.

Once a law is passed in a republic, that law will remain enacted after a government change (provided that the government remains a republic).

This means we could easily allow changes to the government to be made and not effect the titles that have been enacted by various laws.

These changes to government could include historical events such as the mid-to-late republic's tendancy to ignore the law that made a consul ineligible to run for the office again for a period of ten years.

All we'd have to do is create a different republic with the time between consulships changed, and have the player switch if they wanted to or perhaps even make it possible to launch by event even.

The possibilities are overwhelming to me now!

 

[Descartes]

The possibilities are overwhelming to me now!

That's right, you can do anything with this game

 

[Sute]{h]

That's right, you can do anything with this game

Hmm... think I'll try creating an event that adds money to my bank account.

 

[Descartes]

option = {
 name = "I deserve it"
 random_character = {
  limit = {
   NOT = { wealth = 1 }
   traits = humble
  }
  wealth = 200000
 }
}

The bank won't transfer it immediately due to mtth, but you'll have it in a month.

 

[Sute]{h]

The bank won't transfer it immediately due to mtth, but you'll have it in a month.

:rofl:

 

[Cheexsta]

option = {
 name = "I deserve it"
 random_character = {
  limit = {
   NOT = { wealth = 1 }
   traits = humble
  }
  wealth = 200000
 }
}

The bank won't transfer it immediately due to mtth, but you'll have it in a month.

Title hack.

 

[GLENN]

Good work Gunman. ..

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Ideally, I'll have my own take on the Cursus Honorum released as a mod by the next weekend. I also plan to include a few other small changes I've made as well, and hopefully show it off with a nice new Roman AAR.

I'll keep updating on here in the meantime till I actually release something!