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A Thought has come up regarding Eu3 that I think is worth mentioning. So Far EU3 Looks Set to be one of paradox's best games, despite some personal objections I or others may have to somne of its aspects :p. The Eu3 Website is looking great, the artwork and the games cover and all the screenshots and its features and everything, it looks set to be a great game, which undoubtedly many of us are are eager to get our hands on as soon as possible, However, a few concerns have come up in relation to paradox's record with its previous titles.

Games like Victoria, Crusader Kings, all those third party titles and even Hearts of Iron 2, have not been as succesfull as they aught to have been. When they where released, they where released unfinished and full of bugs and missing many features that where either supposed to be implemented or would have drastically improved the qaulity of the games. Of course thanks to paradox and its excellent patching policy, these things where eventually remedied, albeit over a long period of time through nemerous patches all trying to improve on the other ones.

Secondly, with all due respect, the marketing, of these games has been disasterous. They are generally not even known outside of the paradox community, even by those who enjoy strategy games who might instead play something such as Age of Empires III or Civilization IV. When Victoria first came out in whatever year it was, I wanted to get it for christmas, but none of the retail stores in the whole city knew what game I was talking about and did not have it in stock and I had to order it online (or by phone from somewhere else, something like that). The Same Went for Crusader Kings. I Have almost NEVER Seen a Paradox Title on sale on any department store shelvesexcept for a single copy of Hearts of Iron years ago at Electronics Boutique.

I Am a BIG Fan of paradox games, I still play EU2 even though it is something like 5 years old now, but the problem is that it seems like paradox's games are only being released for the paradox community, not much effort is put into getting news of their games out into the general public. Whenever i get asked "What sorta games do you like" I say stratgey games such as "EU2, Hearts of Iron, etc" and most of the time i have to explain what they actually are.

Also, The releasing of the game. I Understand paradox probably has a deadline to have the game released, but more often than not this deadline has resulted in the game being released unfinished. It gets patched however, but by then people may have already lost interest, and lets not forget the large ammount of people who do not actually go online to forums or even patch their games at all.

EU3 Is Paradox's Big Chance to make GREAT game, but not just one relatively unkown to people, up there with titles such as, eg, Age of Empires, which will bring critical aclaim, a widespread knowledge in the community of the game and companies existance, that all important thing "money" but without having to sell its soul like so many other companies do by making crappy games in order to simply make money. I Just really really really do not want to see another massive flop like Victoria by releasing an unfinished game with so much potential.

A Similar thing happened with HOI2, it was released albeit not in the state that paradox had originally intended. I remember a few years ago in the forums how the EU2 forum was getting posts all the time, like HEAPS in every hour, now in the forums I only ever see post made every few hours or so. Its like even paradox veterans have abandonned them. Even in the EU3 Forum there is not too much activity.

Anyway thats just a thought....
 

Belissarius

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Keledor said:
/snip
I remember a few years ago in the forums how the EU2 forum was getting posts all the time, like HEAPS in every hour, now in the forums I only ever see post made every few hours or so. Its like even paradox veterans have abandonned them. Even in the EU3 Forum there is not too much activity.

Anyway thats just a thought....

I have said almost the exact same thing many times before. But for the above Quote I think you read too much into the lack of forum activity. After over 5 years with EUI and EUII, I have nothing more to say about it. I still play the game its still loaded on my computer and I still see if there are patches for it. But i dont post there and havent for years, The topic of EU2 is dry for me. The game still is enjoyable and still is played fequently but I lo longer read or post on the forum. So I wouldnt equate a slow forum for such an old game as abandonment. EU2 is simpy an extremly old game. If EU3 is on par with EU2 I will likely never play EU2 again. I have lost my copy of EU1 because when EU2 came out I stopped playing it. I hope for the same fate of EU2.
 

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I've seen once Hearts of Iron 2 at a shop, but away from that, yeah, people who know's about P'dox Games are too few.
 

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Believe it or not, Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron Platinum & Hearts of Iron 2 are available at a hypermart I occasionaly shop for groceries at. :D Was quite surprised when I saw it.

Anyway, after Gamersgate, I doubt I will ever buy a box release of Paradox game again. The download versions are far more practical and available immeditely. Got V:R just a few minutes after release, something that could never, ever be possible with box. Average time to get box release is like two weeks and up to a month.
 

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Paradox games are and have been all over the stores in Finland since EU1. It just takes a bit time and effort for a small Swedish developer to do the same globally, but title by title they have improved. A separate marketing office in New York quite clearly shows that they are working on it.
 

unmerged(52850)

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Because of Paradox's relatively small chare of the market, they can't have an over-all marketing strategy. They have to concentrate themselves in special markets where they think that their marketing budget will have the largest effect.

Europa Universalis is, by Paradox themselves, niched as a more sophisticated and intelligent game - they will mainly concentrate to a small specific segment of history interested players. To have the same marketing strategy as Civ IV would be an economical suicide.

The same goes for special locations. I'm not saying that Australians are less sophisticated :D , but there are maybe less people interested in European history. Therefore the marketing efforts could concentrate itself in Europe, and maybe in NA.

I totally understand your concerns, but I think that EU III will reach Paradox selling ambition.
 

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Untill recently Paradox had to depend on other companies for it's publishing. Now that they're independant the rushing of releases shouldn't happen as much. HOI2 was quite playable when it came out.

I don't think Paradox games are ever going to appeal to the mass market, it's just not the right genre for taht. They're much better of exploiting the niche they're in for all it's worth. I think they've been doing a good job so far with marketing EUIII.
 

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Paradox games just dont appeal to casual 12-year-oldies out there so putting too much effort of marketing wouldnt be economically wise.
 

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Keledor said:
I remember a few years ago in the forums how the EU2 forum was getting posts all the time, like HEAPS in every hour, now in the forums I only ever see post made every few hours or so. Its like even paradox veterans have abandonned them. Even in the EU3 Forum there is not too much activity.

ok then I want you to check the EU2 forum again ;)
it has around 800 000 posts and around 40 000 threads. That's twice than the second biggest game forum (HoI2).

It's about 5 years old and people are still interested. THAT ,my friend
, is an achievment. Paradox should be proud ^^.

I think most of the questions already has gotten an answer but new people ask them anyway.

<3 Eu2 :D

It's bigger than Civ2 !!!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5
 

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If we match the civ vs. p'dox foruns, he have more threads and posts, but they have more members.

Civ Forum:

Code:
Threads: 177,285, Posts: 4,519,450, Members: 102,527

P'dox Forum:

Code:
Threads: 246,184, Posts: 5,684,170, Members: 60,582

The Quantity doesn't matter :p
 

Jolt

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[joke]Hey, if we're unhappy with the marketting, one thing is certain, they shouldn't fire Susana. They should fire someone else, because it isn't her fault. It will never be her fault.[/joke]

In any of the cases, Paradox can never compete with Atari (Civ) & Microsoft Games (AoE) & Co. Mainly due to financial differences. I don't think they'd have enough money to make provitable a television ad, due to the enormous money they spend per second. (Something like 5€?) While those companies I refered actually do some nice ads (Although as far as I'm aware, they are only broadcasted in the United States). But hey, I don't know much on how to advertise Video-games, other than in PC Magazines, newspapers, etc.
 

unmerged(32886)

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I would say that the EU2 forum is very much alive considering it's 5 years old. Of course it can't be compared to 2/3 years ago, but all in all I'm surprised at this much activity.

As to the marketing, I hope it improves with EU3 for till now it really sucks. The knowledge of previous games outside the community was somewhat poor, but the retail was even worse. So far I've only found 1 copy of EU1 in Amsterdam several years ago and 1 copy of EU2 in Rotterdam. Nothing else nowhere. Of course you can guess what happened with them :D .
 

Fredrik II

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A bit surprised to find a marketing discussion in the EU3 forum :)

I have been with Paradox for about 3.5 years, and we have always been a niched company and been very happy to be in this position. I can only compare 3.5 years back in time, but I know the following is true:
* We have never had more traffic on the Paradox web sites than we do nowadays.
* We have never been more recognized in retail and among developers and other publishers (might differ a little in retail between markets)
* We have never had so much attention in the media; including Gamespot, PC Gamer (US included) etc. All the big magazines has produced at least full page reviews of EU3, and this is true for most major markets.

It is true that you can always do more in marketing and being able to do more is always a matter of cost. Of course we have the ambition to grow the fan base of our games and we are doing so step by step.

One cool thing with Paradox is that we are one of the very few still independent and truly international publishers left in the industry. However this also means that we cannot afford to spend everything on one project even if we sometimes would like to spend some extra marketing money on EU3.

For now we will just have to work harder in marketing and at the same time produce a game that is so great people will tell their friends; "you have to buy this game!" :)

Fredrik
 

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I'd say that marketing has definetley picked up with HoI2+Doomsday, and all the previews in the major gaming sites on the net, such as IGN, Armachair General etc. is a great indicator of this.
There was a lot of problems with the release of Victoria, with a piratet copy being on the web before realese that forced it to get on the market before time, combined (I think) with all the money wastet with Snowball f***** up with Crusader Kings.
Since then I really think that Paradox has become more and more proffesionalized both in the production process and in the marketing department.

Just my two cents

- Lasse

PS. Paradox games are all over the stores in Denmark (even HoI 1 one and two thrones).
 

Gezeder

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Keledor - sounds like Ballarat is getting the short end of the Paradox stick -

Here in Melbourne I see about 1-3 Paradox titles in every store (EB, and other chains I can't recall)

Interestingly they're usually either HOI1, EU1, or HOI2, with the occasional CK or Svae Rike thrown in. And I remember that when Victoria came out, it was in every store down here, though I don't see that title so often anymore.

Perhaps stores in smaller cities don't carry the esoteric titles so much?

Gezeder
 

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EU3 will have an advantage that no prior release has had. Its a self-published game. No more Strategy First type dealers messing things up. No more rushes to meet someone else's schedule. The game will be released when its finished and it will either succeed or fail based on Paradox's own actions. Not much more a developer/publisher can ask for.
 

ComradeOm

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Stonewall said:
EU3 will have an advantage that no prior release has had. Its a self-published game. No more Strategy First type dealers messing things up. No more rushes to meet someone else's schedule. The game will be released when its finished and it will either succeed or fail based on Paradox's own actions. Not much more a developer/publisher can ask for.
The flip side being that now Paradox has to take this chore on for itself. Of course given the balls of it that SF have made in the past this can only be a good thing. Still it does means more work for Paradox.

Really though I'm just waiting for the OTT marketing campaign. Picture the posters - "Johan Andersson's About to Make You His Bitch" :D
 
Jan 9, 2005
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ComradeOm said:
Really though I'm just waiting for the OTT marketing campaign. Picture the posters - "Johan Andersson's About to Make You His Bitch" :D

:rofl:

johan.jpg


ONE MAN

ONE GOAL

ONE MISSION

- EUIII -

"HIS WORLD IS YOUR OYSTER!"

*sound of a massive iron door slamming*